Author Topic: Dual Ballast Resistor  (Read 895 times)

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Offline daryl78powerwagon

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Dual Ballast Resistor
« on: May 31, 2020, 07:06:31 pm »
I have been trying to find out why my coil is only getting 6.5v. According to the manual I should be getting 7-9v at the coil with the key on run, engine off. In checking the ohms resistance of the primary side of the ballast resistor I am getting 1.8ohm. According to the manual this should be between 1.12 and 1.38. I purchased a few more resistors and they are all 1.8ohm resistance. My question is how critical is it to have the 7 to 9 v at the coil and is it worth it to try and get  a single ballast resistor and just use the one side of the harness to get the proper ohm resistanceand voltage to the coil. I do have a single ballast and it reads 1.2ohm resistance.

I did test the red wire coming into the resistor and I am about 1.3v below the battery. From my understanding I should be within 1 v of the battery power. So I do have some voltage drop in the circuit. We tried to trace it and even exposed the factory junction for all the resistor and vr and alt wiring and it all looks good. It's an AZ truck so the wires still look new under the tape.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 07:09:07 pm by daryl78powerwagon »
1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 07:54:10 pm »
    .3 aint much , its the chinese ballasts , it,ll run on the 6.5 but is designed for the 7 to 9v , you could split the plugs and run two single ballasts
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    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #2 on: June 2, 2020, 01:31:56 pm »
    I have a question regarding the voltage drop. In looking for the drop we got a new ignition switch to see if it was being lost at the switch. What we did find was with the new ignition switch it had an acc position as well as the same voltage readings. When we put it in acc the volts on the Gauge would match the Volts of the battery exactly. In run it was almost a volt lower, obviously powering the ignition system. So this tells me the ignition portion of the wiring is likely the culprit.
    Two questions. Why doesn't my existing ignition switch have acc position? Is it the lock cylinder or the steering column not allowing it to turn backwards or the switch?

    For the voltage drop in the ignition system can I run a larger feed wire to the junction that they are all tied to to help carry load from the system? Obviously using a switched source. There is a red wire that is switched that's already there that just has a black plug on it, maybe for speed control or something. I can tie that to the junction and help carry load if that theory is correct. Or just add a larger wire to it.

    Would like to have the acc position so if we run just the radio while camping or something then the ignition doesn't need to be live.

    The steering column doesn't have the acc markings like some do.
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #3 on: June 2, 2020, 02:29:58 pm »
    Over the years, I have owned almost every year from 73, to 91. I do not recall any without an acc position. I know my 73 did, that was my first truck, and where I learned about the difference from the run circuit, and the acc.

    Why does yours not have it? I would look at something mechanical, maybe a well worn lock cylinder. I cannot imagine an aftermarket switch not having the acc pos. I will be interested to see what you find.

    I would not sweat over your readings. If you want, take a look at all the connections from the battery, to the switch. likely the issue is at the bulkhead connector. But you also have the crimp or welded joints for the fusible links, the key switch connector, and so on.

    I would take your timing light (assuming you have one that clamps on the ign wires), and hook it to each ign wire as the engine is running. The flash should be the same for all of them. If you see it look like it is missing a lot of flashes, then look at the dist cap, and back to the coil. You can also test the coil that way. If the coil wire is sporadic, then I would look at the ign box, ballast, and connections.

    If you do have a problem, I would switch that red wire that goes to everything on the engine, to a relay. using the red wire on the key side to trigger the relay. But do not jump that far until you have checked everything else.

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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #4 on: June 2, 2020, 06:33:24 pm »
    over the years , the lock tumbler wears , new "copy" keys get made , I have 2 trucks that easy switch ON but fight to go to ACC . but all have acc including the 1 sided key one ..
    78 to 93 parts trucks
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    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #5 on: June 2, 2020, 08:50:16 pm »
    Acc is one click towards the driver correct? Mine will not move. Think I might get a new one and have it keyed to our key. Possibly could add the steering wheel lock at the same time. I purchased a used kit off ebay a while back. Just need a hole in the shaft to mount the wheel sprocket thing.
    Maybe I can just have the lock refurbished. It's usually just the pins wear out I think. So if having the new one rekeyed all they do is change the pins. We'll see. New ones only 20 bucks

    I will try the timingight thing and see if it's skipping. May try the new box with the old distributor to see if that cleans up the idle again.
    « Last Edit: June 2, 2020, 08:55:42 pm by daryl78powerwagon »
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline Highline

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #6 on: June 4, 2020, 05:46:06 pm »
    Unless you have a true 5 pin ECU, speed switch or EGR timer you do not need to use the dual ballast resistor the single will be fine.

    I installed an e-core coil, ran 12 volts to it, then removed the ballast. That and adding a 4-pin HEI made a world of difference in how it started and ran.

    I didn't see this mentioned earlier but does this have a tilt column?

    I would like to add that your willingness to troubleshoot and learn is refreshing and an inspiration we don't see much these days.

    BTW beautiful truck.
    1976 W100 318/727
    1970 Dart 340/727
    1986 Shelby Charger 240,000 miles and counting
    2005 Neon SRT-4

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #7 on: June 4, 2020, 09:19:59 pm »
    Acc is one click towards the driver correct? Mine will not move. Think I might get a new one and have it keyed to our key. Possibly could add the steering wheel lock at the same time. I purchased a used kit off ebay a while back. Just need a hole in the shaft to mount the wheel sprocket thing.
    Maybe I can just have the lock refurbished. It's usually just the pins wear out I think. So if having the new one rekeyed all they do is change the pins. We'll see. New ones only 20 bucks

    I will try the timingight thing and see if it's skipping. May try the new box with the old distributor to see if that cleans up the idle again.
    Its often more then just the pins, often the cylinder wears from the key going in & out for years.  There was a seller on Ebay that had the cylinder, and two locks for the doors. I think it was under $30.
    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
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    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #8 on: June 4, 2020, 09:50:55 pm »
    Thanks for commenting on the learning. What else am I going to do really.

    As far as the 5 pin ecu, I have a 4 pin I can install that came in the kit however what do I do with that side of the ballast wires. Last time when I installed the 4 pin we used the single ballast and that seems to be where we had some kinda ghost issue with the guages not reading correctly since we just left those wires hanging as we were testing. Don't want to cause it again. So if there is a way to safely remove or terminate that one red wire and the green wire I would rather do that to get the proper voltage to the coil.

    As far as the ignition cylinder, I ordered a new one and found a local locksmith to repin it to our keys so we don't have to take the doorlocks out. I will let you know if that works. Might put that steering wheel lock kit in at the same time. Kinda worried about drilling a hole in the shaft and not having a drill press I don't want to get it crooked and jack it all up. Let alone if it failed and locks the wheel while driving. That would be a pucker tucker for sure.
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #9 on: June 4, 2020, 10:45:01 pm »
    A drill guide like this, is a good tool for use with a hand drill. Even though I have several drill pressess, I still use one of these quite often.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/angle-drill-guide-95622.html

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milescraft-DrillMate-Portable-Mulit-Anlge-Drill-Guide-for-Euro-Style-Drills-with-43-mm-Neck-Diameter-1368/300534153

    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
    97 B3500 5.9MPFI/518 D60HD
    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

    Offline Highline

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #10 on: June 5, 2020, 09:12:40 am »
    Once you remove the green wire it will not have any voltage. The red wire on the other hand belongs to the J10 circuit will still be hot. J10 circuit is spliced together and feeds 12 volts to the Alternator field, voltage regulator, ECU, ballast and Voltage Limiter. It's the ignition run circuit.

    So if you do remove the terminal from the connector it will have to be insulated somehow. Install the terminal into a single connector or slide some heatshrink tubing over it, just do not let it touch ground with the ignition on. As long as you don't cut the terminal off it could be used for an underhood, key on 12v power source for electric choke or tach.
    1976 W100 318/727
    1970 Dart 340/727
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    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #11 on: June 7, 2020, 12:12:22 pm »
    So working on the harmonic balancer dilemma on my other post so while I'm waiting for some tidbits of info on that I might as well ask about the steering wheel lock and ignition cylinder.

    I ordered a new cylinder and can see how ours is broken now. I will have to take ours out so the locksmith can use the pins to reset the new lock.

    About the steering wheel lock I attached some pics. I have a way to drill it however I am concerned with the size of the hole that I have to drill through the shaft. The lock pin for the sprocket it 1/4 inch diam. Isn't that going to remove half the shaft by having such a big hole through it? The shaft is only 3/4 of an inch diam.

    Here's a Pic of the drill guide I chose so I don't have to fully remove the shaft and it will cradle the shaft.
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #12 on: June 7, 2020, 01:14:35 pm »
    Yes, the hole is getting to the size that will weaken the shaft, but you are then adding a sleeve around the shaft, which will give more strength then you started with. If you look, you can find s strength calculator somewhere on the web. I would bet that you will come up with a number higher then a human can exert on the shaft, even with taking into account the extra torque provided by the steering wheel.
    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
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    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

    Offline 712edf

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #13 on: June 7, 2020, 03:26:29 pm »
    I'm not a fan of steering wheel locks to begin with. But I'm odd like that.

    Bucky
    1975 W600   318  NP540  T223Rockwell tcase, Rockwell front & rear axles, 6.8 ratio

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #14 on: June 8, 2020, 04:32:59 pm »
    OK so we will probably go for it to install the lock, why not we're in there.

    As far as the accessory we took the lock cylinder out and manually put the ignition switch in accessories and nothing happens. I think what may have happened is someone installed an alarm system and they wired directly into the ignition switch harness. There is one wire (yellow) that is split and goes into a relay. All the others are spliced into so they didn't actually terminate the wire or interfere with it. So my questions is what is the large yellow wire on the harness, it is directly across from a large orange on the vehicle side? My book doesn't say.

    The one in my hand is the one that is cut off and goes to e relay, obviously the relay is interuptiing something. The large red is just piggy backed as well as the other.

    When I had the new ignition wire harness and plugged it in to see if that's where our voltage drop was that's when we discovered we had acc. So something to do with the the existing harness or alarm hookup is what's doing it for sure. Unless maybe the actual switch inside is broken and not contacting. So if someone has a diagram I can test which line has Volts in acc to see if it's the switch or the alarm hookup.

    I did look at the alarm instructions though and there is nothing about a relay being used except on the door locks so maybe someone relayed something else for some reason.
    « Last Edit: June 8, 2020, 04:41:13 pm by daryl78powerwagon »
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline 712edf

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #15 on: June 8, 2020, 05:56:46 pm »
    The Yellow wire goes to the start terminal of the ignition switch. The Orange wire that is on the vehicle side goes to the starter relay.

    Bucky
    1975 W600   318  NP540  T223Rockwell tcase, Rockwell front & rear axles, 6.8 ratio

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #16 on: June 8, 2020, 06:08:06 pm »
    Why would some one put a relay on that wire? Does it take the load off the ignition switch? In the same area of electric tape there is a positive wire going to the alarm box.

    Which wire coming off the ignition switch harness powers the accessories in the acc position?
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #17 on: June 8, 2020, 06:40:04 pm »
    Here's a few more pics. I found a better diagram. I looked at the diagram but mine has a blue in place of the black. If any one can tell me on the back of the switch which wire should have power when it's in acc that would help determine what it is. In the off position large pink and small black have 12.88v. In run they all have 12.88v except the yellow one.


    I think that relay is a kill switch, maybe. It may work in reverse as it gives constant power until it gets a signal from the alarm system to open the switch and keep the truck from starting.
    « Last Edit: June 8, 2020, 06:55:57 pm by daryl78powerwagon »
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #18 on: June 8, 2020, 07:00:06 pm »
    Why would some one put a relay on that wire? Does it take the load off the ignition switch? In the same area of electric tape there is a positive wire going to the alarm box.

    Which wire coming off the ignition switch harness powers the accessories in the acc position?
    Could have been a remote start.
    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
    97 B3500 5.9MPFI/518 D60HD
    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #19 on: June 8, 2020, 08:42:45 pm »
    Figured it out. Plugged in the new ignition switch it didn't work, found out it was one if the wires on the plug popped out of the socket. Removed them all and tightened the female and picked out the keeper tab and reinstalled. I figured maybe the old one would work now thinking it was just the wire, nope. The old one doesn't work and I don't think it has a position for it. So the new one works and will have to install and also rewire the alarm to the new harness. Also the lock cylinder is also broken as it won't go into acc unless you manually push the detent pins in.
    I will have the new lock rekeyed to our key and install the steering wheel lock and should all be good.
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #20 on: June 14, 2020, 06:37:14 pm »
    Got the new ignition harness in as well as the new ignition lock cylinder. Have acc now. Also added the steering wheel lock system to the column. So now the steering wheel locks and you can't put it in neutral unless you have the key. Used a drill guide to drill the hole through the shaft and it worked perfectly.
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #21 on: June 14, 2020, 08:53:56 pm »
    Great job.   {cool}

    I hope your Son is learning along with you.
    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
    97 B3500 5.9MPFI/518 D60HD
    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

    Offline daryl78powerwagon

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #22 on: June 14, 2020, 09:11:42 pm »
    Great job.   {cool}

    I hope your Son is learning along with you.

    He is. He surprises the hell out of me. He comes up with the smartest solutions. Sometimes makes me wonder what the hell I was thinking after he makes things sound so simple. Makes me know why I over think things for sure, he just sees it much simpler then I do. He will make a great mechanic and if he doesn't he will be able to work on cars his whole life for fun.

    Quick question for you superburban. On my other post I have been dealing with the harmonic balancer. When I tried to remove the balancer bolt I bumped the breaker bar multiple times. I heard a weird noise in the engine. After we got the seal out I was able to out a finger on the timing chain. It is very loose. Do you think me bumping the breaker bar could have made the chain jump a tooth making that sound?
    1978 w150 318/ 727/ np203/ d44/ 9.25 with a/c

    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Dual Ballast Resistor
    « Reply #23 on: June 15, 2020, 12:19:38 am »
    Good Son you have. I wish I could get mine more interested in things. I have mostly been able to surround myself with people who "Care". In the military, I had a saying, "Give me ten untrained soldiers who care, and I will get more done with 50 trained ones who do not give a dam.". While I'm reminicsing, my other favorite saying I told all my lieutenants, Was " You can force someone to do something, but you cannot make someone care. Be on the lookout for those under you that care, and help them succeed.".

    Ok, back to the present.

    I'm trying to think of any other things that may have made the sound you describe. All I can think of, is the bolt making the snapping noise you hear sometimes when you looses it. Maybe just a snapping as the gear turned, and the chain tightened.I dunno, I can not tell you what the noise was. But, a few things to think of. I Cannot imagine you not feeling the chain jump, and you would know you felt something. There would have been about a 5 degree jump on the wrench.
    Timing chains generally will not slip under tension, Driving the small gear, you have a 2 to 1 gear reduction, or torque multiplication. The cam gear is not that hard to turn to begin with, so there is not a lot of torque going through the chain. Under power, the chain tends to dig in to the gear teeth.

    Generally a chain will slip when the gear train is floating, like when you let off the gas. Everything is just slowing down, and the chain has no real tension, and just flops around. Then as thinks slow down enough, or the gas is reapplied, the chain may slip due to not being fully seated on the gear teeth.

    Bicyclists will say that is wrong, and they have had chains skip under tension. The difference is they are driving the larger gear, and trying to turn the smaller gear. Small chain, lots of tension, are the opposite of the timing chain in the engine.

    The biggest reason for timing chain slipping is the plastic teeth breaking off the cam gear, and giving more space for the chain to flop around, and smaller gears that do not let the chain dig in, see the pics. But even then, I would still think you would feel the jump transmitted through the wrench. It sounds like you do not still have the factroy gear, But you never know.

    I would guesstimate about a 30% chance that your chain actually slipped. But you were the one there, what is your gut instinct?

    I think I would remove the fuel pump, and if needed, the alternator. Then you can get your finger in, and feel the chain, and the cam gear in question. Depending on your camera, you might even be able to get some good pics.

    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
    97 B3500 5.9MPFI/518 D60HD
    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

     

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