Author Topic: Brake problem  (Read 1415 times)

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Offline MikeT

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Brake problem
« on: June 1, 2020, 10:03:15 pm »
I am trying to troubleshoot a soft brake pedal. When pedal is pushed, fluid shoots out of reservoir of the rear brakes. Nothing from the front reservoir.
Is this a problem? Seals toast in the master? Short vid attached.
« Last Edit: June 1, 2020, 10:06:50 pm by MikeT »
'75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
'77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #1 on: June 2, 2020, 04:18:38 am »
    is this squirt happining when you let off brake or when you step down on brake ? adjust rear brakes . if on letting off, otherwise your probably correct .
    « Last Edit: June 2, 2020, 04:21:34 am by dodge82273 »
    78 to 93 parts trucks
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    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
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    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #2 on: June 2, 2020, 05:35:02 am »
    is this squirt happining when you let off brake or when you step down on brake ? adjust rear brakes . if on letting off, otherwise your probably correct .

    I've adjusted rear brakes. It happens as you press down on the pedal.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #3 on: June 2, 2020, 05:39:38 pm »
    your probably correct then ..
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #4 on: June 17, 2020, 10:10:35 pm »
    Replaced master and still soft pedal. I decided to go through rear brakes to make sure they were adjusted correctly. I found a leaking inner seal replaced and adjusted them but still soft pedal. Pressure bleed all brakes, still soft pedal. Blood pressure rising!! Clamped off rear brakes, still soft pedal. Clamped off front brakes, rock hard pedal!! Getting somewhere now. Clamped off passenger side, soft pedal. Clamped off driver side, rock hard pedal!! I have the culprit but no idea why? Still air in the caliper? I have bleed it till I am blue in the face and no bubbles. Could it be a bad caliper? Anyone have some insight? Dana 60 from a 87 one ton. Maybe I should just change the caliper? Getting tired of throwing parts at this.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #5 on: June 17, 2020, 11:12:31 pm »
    soft pedal is Normally air BUT a caliper that is not sliding correctly can cause this as well .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 09:18:47 am »
    YES a caliper that has a piston stuck to the seal will travel further to compress the pads [ soft pedal] and get pulled back further by the seal that creates a longer stroke [ soft pedal ]
    put your truck info HERE
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    Offline 86w250

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #7 on: June 20, 2020, 06:14:34 am »
    Check the brake hose going to the caliper too.  They can expand when bad causing a soft pedal.
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    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2020, 08:00:01 pm »
     Messed with the driver side caliper some today. Seems to move just fine when pedal is pressed. So not stuck. Nothing leaking. Pads and hose are pretty much new. Yet when I clamp off this caliper, pedal gets hard. Cant seem wrap my head around why this caliper is making the pedal soft but I guess Ill order a caliper and throw it on.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 12:16:55 am »
    are both the pads worn evenly ? Does the piston have a wear pattern where it meets the pad on it ?
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #10 on: June 23, 2020, 07:22:43 pm »
    Just looked at the pads, everything looks kind of even. Not a lot of miles on the pads so hard to tell. The new left side caliper is supposed to be here tomorrow, hope its going to fix things. Not sure how though.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline Mojack

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #11 on: June 23, 2020, 08:57:57 pm »
    I had a "not so old" hose partially collapse and act like a check valve. It caused the caliper to drag until the pressure could leak back through it. I know your situation is different,  but it's something else to look into.
    1979 Trailduster 0 cubic inches, awaiting a 440, a crusty work in progress.

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #12 on: June 23, 2020, 11:18:52 pm »
    not alot of miles on pads ? so they were just installed ? many times when the calipers piston is pushed back , it enters the seal where it has not been in a while , then it sticks there .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline jungle

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #13 on: June 24, 2020, 02:41:54 am »
    Look at the hose section also like posted above.
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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #14 on: June 24, 2020, 08:52:05 am »
    not alot of miles on pads ? so they were just installed ? many times when the calipers piston is pushed back , it enters the seal where it has not been in a while , then it sticks there .
     

    yup thats what l said above
    put your truck info HERE
    MOPAR TO YA!!!!!! AARON HOWORD TOWNSEND / SLANTEDMIND---GOD BLESSDODGEBOYS FSM STORE
    [email protected]
    former Parts Mgr & A1 Tech @ Pete's Chrysler -Plymouth
    DO NOT use the site IM,s to contact me  l have them turned OFF

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 10:59:47 pm »
     Received the caliper a few days ago, hate when the rust up so painted it with some clear caliper paint. Went to install the new(rebuilt) caliper today. The thing would not fit!! I could not get the key to go by itself let alone with the spring on it. Spent an hour trying to figure out why. I thought maybe I had an over sized key. But the old caliper fit fine. So it had to be the new caliper. After examining it closer it had the same part # cast into it , it looked like the exact same thing until I looked closer at the slides. Some one in its past decided to weld up the slides! They must have stretched the brackets and instead of getting a over size key they welded up the slides. Back to the parts store. This has turn into a cluster!
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline WhiteElephant

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 01:33:29 am »
    Hope you find the problem. I am having the exact same problem. I've replaced pads and brake shoes machined rotors and drums and replaced rubber hoses and master cylinder. truck seems to stop alright but pedal just about hits floor. Tomorrow i am going to try adjusting booster rod.

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #17 on: July 4, 2020, 09:51:35 pm »
    Hope you find the problem. I am having the exact same problem. I've replaced pads and brake shoes machined rotors and drums and replaced rubber hoses and master cylinder. truck seems to stop alright but pedal just about hits floor. Tomorrow i am going to try adjusting booster rod.

    Let me know what you find out.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #18 on: July 5, 2020, 01:45:39 am »
    I'd look at the proportioning valve , sounds like your not getting all the air out , maybe because the valve has shifted .  and or   how much free travel between the master and the booster ? is the push rod too adjusted short ?
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline WhiteElephant

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #19 on: July 15, 2020, 11:51:32 pm »
    I managed to get the brakes better on my 92 W250.  During the process of adjusting the parking brake cable I broke the main cable. When I looked more closely I realized one of the shorter cables was hanging up. So I replaced all three. When I got everything back together I manually adjusted the rear brakes. I used one of those infrared thermometers to check that the brakes weren't getting to hot. I'd drive for about a mile without using the brakes and coast to a stop before I took a reading. I did did the same method for adjusting the Vacuum Booster rod. I ending up needing to go out 1 1/2 turns. I tried going out 1 more turn but the front rotor temperature jumped from 80 to 145 F.

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 01:41:31 pm »
    I'd look at the proportioning valve , sounds like your not getting all the air out , maybe because the valve has shifted .  and or   how much free travel between the master and the booster ? is the push rod too adjusted short ?

    The proportioning valve is my next thing to look at. I replaced about ten years ago so i dont think its gummed up. I eliminated the new master by plugging both ports and have a rock hard pedal. I did adjust the booster rod had about an 1/8" to much play.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #21 on: July 16, 2020, 01:48:09 pm »
    I managed to get the brakes better on my 92 W250.  During the process of adjusting the parking brake cable I broke the main cable. When I looked more closely I realized one of the shorter cables was hanging up. So I replaced all three. When I got everything back together I manually adjusted the rear brakes. I used one of those infrared thermometers to check that the brakes weren't getting to hot. I'd drive for about a mile without using the brakes and coast to a stop before I took a reading. I did did the same method for adjusting the Vacuum Booster rod. I ending up needing to go out 1 1/2 turns. I tried going out 1 more turn but the front rotor temperature jumped from 80 to 145 F.
    That's one way of adjusting the brakes. Glad it worked for you. I just used measurements to adjust the booster rod length. I am still having soft pedal issues and currently working my way from master to valve to wheel cylinders and calipers. I hope I can find the cause of my misery soon. I am loosing sleep at this point.
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #22 on: July 16, 2020, 04:52:12 pm »
    when you try to bleed the brakes by having a helper step down on the pedal as you open a bleeder , does either the front ones  OR the rear ones seem to dribble rather than SQUIRT out ?   if so the combination valve has shifted , if both seem to have some force behind the squirt then it has NOT .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline MikeT

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    Re: Brake problem
    « Reply #23 on: July 18, 2020, 10:30:36 pm »
    when you try to bleed the brakes by having a helper step down on the pedal as you open a bleeder , does either the front ones  OR the rear ones seem to dribble rather than SQUIRT out ?   if so the combination valve has shifted , if both seem to have some force behind the squirt then it has NOT .

     I bled the proportioning valve. Not sure if that changed anything or not. Decided to readjusted the rear brakes, having a Detroit makes it hard to tell how much drag the shoes create . I removed an axle to get a better idea of each individual wheel and then bled them again for the thousand time. Sure enough I got a firm pedal! I think Ill go through and bleed all four corners again one last time but I think I got a handle on this now. Time to move on to the ignition system.
    Thanks for everyone's help.
     
    '75 Trail Duster 440 4spd,
    '77 Trail Duster 400 4spd