Author Topic: 87 RC Steering Issue  (Read 849 times)

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Offline Jstorm

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87 RC Steering Issue
« on: July 21, 2020, 07:51:32 pm »
Happy Tyrís Day Everyone,

Iím having steering issues and suspect the PS pump or box. 1) I canít turn right as far as I can left, maybe the pitman arm was put on at the wrong position on the box, maybe the right tie rod end being all the way in is throwing it off, not sure. 2) Steering is more difficult than a manual steer vehicle.

New to me 87 RC 4WD 360 4bbl 33/12.5/15 not lifted Ė yes this is an issue too, the tires are rubbing but Iím not sure which direction I want to go yet, and I need to get it to turn first. Also the tire width is making it harder to steer at a stop or parked.

With engine running, wheels on the ground, it is very difficult to turn the wheels when stopped/parked. When moving it is manageable. Feels more difficult than a vehicle with manual steering.

With engine running, wheels off the ground, the wheels turn with some resistance.
With engine off, wheels off the ground, the wheels turn very easily.
Left to lock is 2 full turns of the steering wheel.
Right to lock is not quite one full turn, call it 7/8 of a turn.
I do not hear chirping or squealing from the pump, I do not hear grinding or clicking from the box, I do hear what I believe to be the relief valve inside the pump bypassing when turned left to lock.

There is no fluid leaking from pump or box, although there looks to be a little fluid on top of the box like some was dripped on to it some time ago.

The fluid does not get hot, gets warm to touch after working the wheels with engine on & the reservoir is at the ďFull ColdĒ mark, when cold.

The belt is in decent condition and tight enough, I see no signs of it slipping.

I canít find anything bent, broke or binding. Looks like fairly new steering arm and tie rod ends but everything else has been there a while.

Wheels look to be aligned fairly well, it drives fairly straight, steering is sloppy.

How many turns to lock is the factory box supposed to be?

I tried to post pics but they would not upload, this is my 4th try to post this.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 07:55:45 pm by Jstorm »
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #1 on: July 21, 2020, 10:56:12 pm »
    Steering box is a Saginaw 7802644L
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #2 on: July 22, 2020, 07:28:39 am »
    left/right .... what are you calling center ? when the steering wheel is straight across ? 
    turn the wheel all the way left , count the turns from there all the way right , devide that by 2 turn the wheel that many left , that is centered on the steering box , and "should" place your wheels straight ahead . The steering wheel is NOT keyed on a 4x4 and gets centered after auto has been alined by removing it and reinstalling it straight ahead.
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #3 on: July 22, 2020, 09:18:31 am »
    Now I get it, thank you. I was referring to center as the front wheels being pointed straight ahead. PO did not center correctly which is why I have 2 turns one way and 1 turn the other.
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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #4 on: July 22, 2020, 09:40:35 am »
    now the hard steering could be a BAD high pressure line , they degrade from the inside to where they will block off fluid flow / to test and its messy is pull the hose off the box and fire the truck up , it should shoot fluid a good 20 feet , if not then either in order - bad pump or hose plugged / now if it does shoot fluid good then either the pressure bypass in the pump is weak [ broken spring] or the pressure return valve on the box is bad or the box its self is bad
    put your truck info HERE
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2020, 08:40:01 pm »
    Well it didn't make it the full 20' but it went 12 to 15'. For kicks I also pulled the return hose off of the pump and watched it return back to the reservoir, seemed to return decently. It wasn't a quite a steady stream, more like steady chugs.
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2020, 09:23:05 pm »
    Can someone post a picture of a stock center link? I don't have a FSM yet and the one on mine doesn't look like a stock one to me. I am unfamiliar with the Ramcharger.
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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2020, 10:18:58 pm »
    Well it didn't make it the full 20' but it went 12 to 15'. For kicks I also pulled the return hose off of the pump and watched it return back to the reservoir, seemed to return decently. It wasn't a quite a steady stream, more like steady chugs.


    the chugging is the pressure return valve working / so l,d say your box is bad
    put your truck info HERE
    MOPAR TO YA!!!!!! AARON HOWORD TOWNSEND / SLANTEDMIND---GOD BLESSDODGEBOYS FSM STORE
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    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 05:31:59 am »
    Can someone post a picture of a stock center link? I don't have a FSM yet and the one on mine doesn't look like a stock one to me. I am unfamiliar with the Ramcharger.


    Happy Thor's Day,

    The "Center Link" on a Dodge 4WD is more commonly known as a Drag Link.  Center Link is more correct for a 2WD or a vehicle with IFS that uses the old style linkage with a center link and an idler arm.  Either way, a Dodge Drag Link is one solid piece, not adjustable, and has both threaded ends pointed the same way.



    Sometimes on modified trucks you might find a GM style drag link, which are adjustable, but that is usually only found on lifted trucks.

    Also keep in mind that if you have wide enough tires, they will rub the drag link when turning, but that is when turning left, which you seem to have more turning ability in that direction.  It's also possible to rub the frame, but usually that is in both directions about equally.  Check the stop bolts on the knuckles to see if they are both making contact or if one was replaced and not adjusted correctly.  If not that, I would guess the box also.
    L.Clemons

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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 02:38:33 pm »

    the chugging is the pressure return valve working / so l,d say your box is bad

    I'm thinking so too, thank you!
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2020, 02:59:38 pm »
    Happy Thor's Day,

    The "Center Link" on a Dodge 4WD is more commonly known as a Drag Link.  Center Link is more correct for a 2WD or a vehicle with IFS that uses the old style linkage with a center link and an idler arm.  Either way, a Dodge Drag Link is one solid piece, not adjustable, and has both threaded ends pointed the same way.



    Sometimes on modified trucks you might find a GM style drag link, which are adjustable, but that is usually only found on lifted trucks.

    Also keep in mind that if you have wide enough tires, they will rub the drag link when turning, but that is when turning left, which you seem to have more turning ability in that direction.  It's also possible to rub the frame, but usually that is in both directions about equally.  Check the stop bolts on the knuckles to see if they are both making contact or if one was replaced and not adjusted correctly.  If not that, I would guess the box also.

    Happy Thor's Day! Thanks for the info, I will be looking out for the above things to watch out for. I've spent hours messing around and have not seen a center link like the one on my RC, until today. See link below, item #4 is what I am referring to. It's a straight shaft, tapered and threaded on both ends, it accepts a short shank tie rod. I'm assuming it's aftermarket as it looks nothing like what I've been able to look up at parts stores. Not that it matters but at least I have a better idea of what I'm working with.

    https://www.dodgetalk.com/threads/how-do-i-remove-the-steering-arm.269028/#lg=thread-269028&slide=0

    « Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 03:04:39 pm by Jstorm »
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    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2020, 04:45:02 pm »
    Ah, the tie rod, yes, also sometimes called a center link.  Sorry, I have drag links on the brain since mine is shot and I haven't found time to put the new one on yet.  As far as I know, those are currently unavailable.  You can have one made from DOM and some threaded inserts, or you can find a good used one.
    L.Clemons

    1988 Ramcharger AW450-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch

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    I am the unknown Will,
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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 09:48:33 am »
    Happy Thor's Day! Thanks for the info, I will be looking out for the above things to watch out for. I've spent hours messing around and have not seen a center link like the one on my RC, until today. See link below, item #4 is what I am referring to. It's a straight shaft, tapered and threaded on both ends, it accepts a short shank tie rod. I'm assuming it's aftermarket as it looks nothing like what I've been able to look up at parts stores. Not that it matters but at least I have a better idea of what I'm working with.

    https://www.dodgetalk.com/threads/how-do-i-remove-the-steering-arm.269028/#lg=thread-269028&slide=0




    thats because they are calling it the wrong thing / thats the tie rod sleeve adjuster
    put your truck info HERE
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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #13 on: July 24, 2020, 10:16:58 am »
    and its a NON-wear item = which means unless you cut it in half it NEVER needs to be replaced / so whats wrong with yours

    factory number is # 4384-165
    put your truck info HERE
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #14 on: July 24, 2020, 12:48:00 pm »
    Thanks Guys - nothing is wrong with it, I'm just trying to figure out what I have as far as front suspension/steering is concerned before I started messing with it, if it's OEM or been replaced with aftermarket offroad stuff, etc.. I am not familiar with the RC suspension and the tie rod threw me for a loop, especially since all of the searches I've made come up with something different.

    I'm going to have to figure out how to get my picture sizes small enough to post.
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    Offline DODGEBOYS

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #15 on: July 25, 2020, 10:30:38 am »

    I'm going to have to figure out how to get my picture sizes small enough to post.

    # 1 / its called "paint" and every computer made with "windows" has it and its real easy to use

    # 2 / you my friend need a FSM [ Factory Service Manual ] for your truck , it will teach you EVERYTHING you could ever want to know about your truck and how to fix it  /  link below to one but l,m out of "stock" right now and should have one coming shortly

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dodgetrucks/fsm-factory-service-manuals-1972-to-1992-t612-s10.html#p779
    put your truck info HERE
    MOPAR TO YA!!!!!! AARON HOWORD TOWNSEND / SLANTEDMIND---GOD BLESSDODGEBOYS FSM STORE
    [email protected]
    former Parts Mgr & A1 Tech @ Pete's Chrysler -Plymouth
    DO NOT use the site IM,s to contact me  l have them turned OFF

    Offline texxas

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #16 on: July 25, 2020, 11:09:17 am »
    I HAD 33 12.5 15 BFG All terrains on my stock unlifted suspension short bed 83 W150.  Rubbed just slightly, wandered all over the highway following the wear grooves in the road and acted like water skis when it was wet. I thought I had steering parts wear. It was so bad when I pulled a trailer it was scary over about 50mph. When I needed new tires I went with BFG AT 33 10.5 15. Huge difference. No rubbing, no wandering, no hydro plane skiing and I can get the truck with trailer up to 70+ mph and it tows beautifully. You don't know its there unless there's a heavy load on. This was/is my first Dodge, although I had it 21 years now. I was surprised at how much difference the tire width made on my unlifted truck.
    Just my 2 cents.

    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #17 on: July 25, 2020, 01:05:12 pm »
    I HAD 33 12.5 15 BFG All terrains on my stock unlifted suspension short bed 83 W150.  Rubbed just slightly, wandered all over the highway following the wear grooves in the road and acted like water skis when it was wet. I thought I had steering parts wear. It was so bad when I pulled a trailer it was scary over about 50mph. When I needed new tires I went with BFG AT 33 10.5 15. Huge difference. No rubbing, no wandering, no hydro plane skiing and I can get the truck with trailer up to 70+ mph and it tows beautifully. You don't know its there unless there's a heavy load on. This was/is my first Dodge, although I had it 21 years now. I was surprised at how much difference the tire width made on my unlifted truck.
    Just my 2 cents.

    Most likely not enough toe-in.
    L.Clemons

    1988 Ramcharger AW450-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch

    2018 Ram 2500HD Crew Cab 4WD 5.7L

    I am the unknown Will,
    The Anger that threatens glory and ruin:
    Lord of Storms am I,
    in heaven high and caverns deep.
    I am the Father of the War,
    Odin for you, Wotan for him,
    Wayfarer, Wanderer, beggar, king,
    numen, genius, strength and ring.

    Offline texxas

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #18 on: July 25, 2020, 01:56:53 pm »
    I had it checked more than once. The wide tires were on it when I bought it from Lewisville Auto Wrecking. They had run it through Lewisville Auto Auction multiple weeks (Wednesday night auction 1999) and it didn't sell. I bid $900 the starting bid and no one else bid, another no sale.  It ran but had been jumped, multiple times. Passenger ball joint was shot and the bed had impacted the rear of the cab on both sides. there was some other busted suspension parts on that corner.(its been 21 years I don't recall what all) Spring had a cracked leaf, shock was completely blown out.
    Anyway the wreckers had the auction call me a couple of days later to see if I was still interested. Told them I spent some cash and $800 was all I had. It was my $800 or the crusher. Once I did all the suspension work on it and had it aligned it always drove sketchy, so much so that I had it to Dallas Frame and Alignment to check the frame and suspension. It checked out good even after all the abuse the old truck had suffered. They suggested the narrower tires when I explained my concerns. I ran those 33 12.5s about another year until they were worn out. It really was as simple as narrower tires in my case. I still run the 10.5 width but may get some mud tread tires this next time since I don't daily drive it as a work truck any longer.
    Also I misspoke, not quite "first Dodge" but first Dodge truck. I had a 68 Charger and a 75 Fury sport. So third Mopar.

    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #19 on: July 25, 2020, 03:40:19 pm »
    I've run everything up to a 15" wide tire and while they will try pull to "match" the slope on the road, it's easily managed.  But a little less toe-in can make it feel like it's all over the road.  Keep in mind when working on a modified vehicle, stock alignment specs may not be the right spec for the now modified vehicle with it's different handling characteristics.  Camber can also be a problem, particularly when foolish lift manufacturers keep prioritizing front driveshaft angles over safe handling by insisting people put shims on top of the front axle.
    L.Clemons

    1988 Ramcharger AW450-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch

    2018 Ram 2500HD Crew Cab 4WD 5.7L

    I am the unknown Will,
    The Anger that threatens glory and ruin:
    Lord of Storms am I,
    in heaven high and caverns deep.
    I am the Father of the War,
    Odin for you, Wotan for him,
    Wayfarer, Wanderer, beggar, king,
    numen, genius, strength and ring.

    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 09:18:46 am »

    # 2 / you my friend need a FSM [ Factory Service Manual ] for your truck , it will teach you EVERYTHING you could ever want to know about your truck and how to fix it  /  link below to one but l,m out of "stock" right now and should have one coming shortly

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dodgetrucks/fsm-factory-service-manuals-1972-to-1992-t612-s10.html#p779

    LOL...I know, I'm  waiting on your guy to get back from vacation so you can get one to me.  ;D
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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #21 on: July 27, 2020, 09:27:09 am »
    LOL...I know, I'm  waiting on your guy to get back from vacation so you can get one to me.  ;D
    well he's back and got an email this morning say'in he shipped it to me
    put your truck info HERE
    MOPAR TO YA!!!!!! AARON HOWORD TOWNSEND / SLANTEDMIND---GOD BLESSDODGEBOYS FSM STORE
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #22 on: July 27, 2020, 09:30:24 am »
    I HAD 33 12.5 15 BFG All terrains on my stock unlifted suspension short bed 83 W150.  Rubbed just slightly, wandered all over the highway following the wear grooves in the road and acted like water skis when it was wet. I thought I had steering parts wear. It was so bad when I pulled a trailer it was scary over about 50mph. When I needed new tires I went with BFG AT 33 10.5 15. Huge difference. No rubbing, no wandering, no hydro plane skiing and I can get the truck with trailer up to 70+ mph and it tows beautifully. You don't know its there unless there's a heavy load on. This was/is my first Dodge, although I had it 21 years now. I was surprised at how much difference the tire width made on my unlifted truck.
    Just my 2 cents.

     {cool} Thanks for the 2 cents, good input.
    Life Is Beertiful

    87 RC 360 4bbl 4WD

    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #23 on: July 27, 2020, 09:32:56 am »
    well he's back and got an email this morning say'in he shipped it to me

     {cool} {beer} RIGHT ON!!!!
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    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 10:04:29 am »
    Paint...who'd a thunk it? I forgot all about it.
    « Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 10:09:29 am by Jstorm »
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #25 on: July 27, 2020, 03:41:41 pm »
    tie rod ends and drag link all look pretty new , now ya gotta wonder who set the toe in and where ...
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #26 on: July 27, 2020, 04:50:49 pm »
    Paint...who'd a thunk it? I forgot all about it.

    LOL and l,m NOT laughing at you Jon , but both your axle seals are shot [ left side worse ] and you can tell someone just did them [ axle u-joints ]  its learning curve for sure , so what happens is when you pull the axles out to change u-joints you are suppose to clean the axle tube out  , so what happens if you dont clean it out real nice of all the crap [ dirt-mud-rocks-grime] when you shove the nice repaired axle back in it gets all over the end of the axle and gets shoved into the seal and worse yet into the frontend gears and bearings = its just a shit show when it aint done right by the gear lube leaking out of your frontend sorry to say [ good job on getting pictures posted ]
    put your truck info HERE
    MOPAR TO YA!!!!!! AARON HOWORD TOWNSEND / SLANTEDMIND---GOD BLESSDODGEBOYS FSM STORE
    [email protected]
    former Parts Mgr & A1 Tech @ Pete's Chrysler -Plymouth
    DO NOT use the site IM,s to contact me  l have them turned OFF

    Offline Jstorm

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #27 on: July 28, 2020, 08:56:45 am »
    dodge82273 / DODGEBOYS, Thanks for the sharp eyes. Yes, it seems like the previous owner didn't know what they were doing, or at least didn't have the experience to know how to do it right, not that I'm a top-notch mechanic myself. I will be happy to get the steering and other front end issues put to rest.
    Life Is Beertiful

    87 RC 360 4bbl 4WD

    Offline jungle

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #28 on: July 31, 2020, 04:14:15 am »
    Paint...who'd a thunk it? I forgot all about it.

    Can we see a pic of the front shock mounts top & bottom?
    Thanks,
    Jim
    1988 RC.the gold one   pics
    1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
    BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
    440 pics

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #29 on: July 31, 2020, 03:58:56 pm »
    Can we see a pic of the front shock mounts top & bottom?
    Thanks,
    Jim

    Sure, I threw the last one in for kicks...
    Life Is Beertiful

    87 RC 360 4bbl 4WD

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    Re: 87 RC Steering Issue
    « Reply #30 on: Today at 04:53:33 am »
    THANK YOU!!!!

    That push bar  looks like one that I made for my RC.
    Jim
    1988 RC.the gold one   pics
    1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
    BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
    440 pics

     

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