Author Topic: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog  (Read 1643 times)

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Offline thegrid22593

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1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
« on: March 14, 2020, 02:18:48 pm »
Hey all, newbie mechanic here and trying to get my 85 RC ready for a smog check. Let me give you some history on the truck so far so you know whats been done to it in terms of running quality.

1. Replaced intake manifold gasket ( confirmed no vacuum leaks )
2. Rebuilt carburetor ( holley 6280 )
3. Replaced fuel pump
4. Replaced fuel filter
5. Replaced all rubber fuel lines going to filter, pump, carb.
6. Initial ignition timing set.
7. New cap, wires, plugs, rotor.
8. New egr valve.
9. New brake booster valve ( confirmed no vacuum leak)
10. New PCV valve

After all of this here is what has been happening, some days I get the truck up and running, let it warm for about 10-15 mins before putting into gear and it drives pretty good. There are still some stumbles and weird blips but only during idle at a stop sign or light. I am assuming its from the lean burn computer adjusting the idle mixture to run really lean at those times.

Other days, same process, runs like complete horse doo doo. Sounds like its missing sometimes on multiple cylinders, hesitation in the throttle, stalls out while warming, etc... just horrible. The only thing that is variable is air temp but as we all know that doesn't change to drastically in southern cal.

I have checked vacuum in gear and on the days that it runs really smooth I have a very steady needle running right around 18 inches of mercury. On the days where it runs like crap its about 15 right before the late ignition timing and bounces around intermittently there. Not a steady bounce like a loose/leaky valve would create.

Anyway, I have been digging and digging on these forums and I want to attempt doing a lean burn delete / conversion. My truck is the 4x4 version so it has the spark control computer in driver side fender well behind the battery and there is a single vacuum line that runs all the way to the passenger side of the carburetor.

I have read through Dodgeboys post on how to detect if your truck has been converted and my doesn't look like it has nor does it drive like it has.

This is my first time working with Lean Burn and if I had known about it before purchasing I probably would have went else where or tried to buy a TBI model.

I guess my question to any of you is:

1. Is it worth replacing if the problems seem intermittent?
2. Is this even possible in CA? (I've seen some posts about this but they were for almost 10-12 years ago, not sure if things have changed.)
3. If I do replace what are some tips/steps/parts I will need.

I have put a decent amount of time and money into this truck and I absolutely love it and hope this can work out. Just trying to get directions on next steps.

I will post some pictures of my current setup so we can get some context visually.

Thanks in advance, this forum is a life saver!
1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2020, 02:52:02 pm »
    You can't change it in California unless your underhood sticker shows a non-Lean Burn setup is my understanding. I have suggested to someone finding a traditional-ignition model in the junkyard and changing out the radiator support that has the sticker.

    That being said, I recall one of the posters here having found similar problems to yours and it involved some switch or connection at the charcoal canister. I'd look carefully there.
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2020, 04:53:44 pm »
    Here are some photos of the charcoal canister lines to the carb.







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    Offline Broncowilly

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2020, 05:41:05 pm »
    That lean burn system is horrible now just like they were when new.  I'm not restricted by smog laws so I removed every last bit of it and went with an Edlebrock and Holley 600.  Wow does it ever run great!

    You might be able to install a fuel injection kit on it and pass Commiefornia smog laws.  Check with the manufacturers of these kits.  I'm sure they will be able to assist with this.
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2020, 05:50:41 pm »
    the 3/8ths (?) hase from the canister to the carb , we place an IN_LINE fuel filter there to prevent the charcoal in the canister from entering the carb's bowl .
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2020, 05:54:24 pm »
    the 3/8ths (?) hase from the canister to the carb , we place an IN_LINE fuel filter there to prevent the charcoal in the canister from entering the carb's bowl .

    Hmm interesting, I will give this a shot.
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #6 on: March 15, 2020, 05:54:19 pm »
    yup Nothing you can do unless you upgrade to a better system / you either gotta fix it so it passes or trash it and spent lots of money / your choices are 1988 to 1991 TBI they have just as many problems - 1992 to 1995 OBD1 Mag and the easiest to do  - 1996 to 2001 Mag just as easy to do running wise but LADEN with all kinds of Emissions OR go with a Plug n Play EFI system like the link below

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30003

     https://www.enginelabs.com/news/entry-level-self-tuning-efi-showdown/

    https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fuel-injection-systems

    put your truck info HERE
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #7 on: March 15, 2020, 08:22:15 pm »
    yup Nothing you can do unless you upgrade to a better system / you either gotta fix it so it passes or trash it and spent lots of money / your choices are 1988 to 1991 TBI they have just as many problems - 1992 to 1995 OBD1 Mag and the easiest to do  - 1996 to 2001 Mag just as easy to do running wise but LADEN with all kinds of Emissions OR go with a Plug n Play EFI system like the link below

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30003

     https://www.enginelabs.com/news/entry-level-self-tuning-efi-showdown/

    https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fuel-injection-systems
    I see. That first EFI system thatís about 800 isnít bad but would I have to get a 4 barrel intake?

    Iíll check that wire this evening and get back to you.


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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #8 on: March 15, 2020, 08:58:09 pm »
    I see. That first EFI system thatís about 800 isnít bad but would I have to get a 4 barrel intake?

    Iíll check that wire this evening and get back to you.


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    Is it CARB approved?
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #9 on: March 15, 2020, 10:02:22 pm »
    Holley makes a 2bbl EFI set-up but I don't know if it's CARB approved.  There's cheap used 4bbl manifolds all over the place though, good excuse to clean all the crud out of your galleys.
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #10 on: March 15, 2020, 10:18:22 pm »
    Holley makes a 2bbl EFI set-up but I don't know if it's CARB approved.  There's cheap used 4bbl manifolds all over the place though, good excuse to clean all the crud out of your galleys.
    Interesting. Will products normally say if things are CARB approved?


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    Offline GUT

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #11 on: March 15, 2020, 11:34:40 pm »
    I changed mine to a MSD 6. But I live in one of the few county's which do not do bi-annual smog tests.
     It does have a Carb executive order, which means you should be able switch to this, but I am unsure exactly which parts would have to be eliminated, to meet Ca smog.

    Google Carb EO D-40-43.
    '85 RC                                        


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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #12 on: March 15, 2020, 11:51:19 pm »
    I changed mine to a MSD 6. But I live in one of the few county's which do not do bi-annual smog tests.
     It does have a Carb executive order, which means you should be able switch to this, but I am unsure exactly which parts would have to be eliminated, to meet Ca smog.

    Google Carb EO D-40-43.
    Just searched this on google and got this list. Based on how Iím reading this, these are all the systems that would be smog legal in CA?




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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #13 on: March 16, 2020, 12:45:52 am »
    yup Nothing you can do unless you upgrade to a better system / you either gotta fix it so it passes or trash it and spent lots of money / your choices are 1988 to 1991 TBI they have just as many problems - 1992 to 1995 OBD1 Mag and the easiest to do  - 1996 to 2001 Mag just as easy to do running wise but LADEN with all kinds of Emissions OR go with a Plug n Play EFI system like the link below

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30003

     https://www.enginelabs.com/news/entry-level-self-tuning-efi-showdown/

    https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fuel-injection-systems
    Dodgeboys, hereís that wire that you asked about in your photo. Runs from the A/C compressor I think to the passenger side firewall. I did notice thereís a relay or something loose there. See photos in order from front end to fire wall.





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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #14 on: March 16, 2020, 02:49:22 am »
    Did some more research on efi and found this one


    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/atomic_efi/atomic_efi_tbi/parts/2900

    CARB certified for 87 and older. Mine RC is an 85 but it says for GM models only. Does that mean it wonít pass if on a Dodge ?
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline Microcube

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #15 on: March 16, 2020, 09:11:37 am »
    Yes, I failed a smog once because my MAF housing on my MazdaSpeed 3 had EO number 3066-1 which was for the 2006-2010 year MazdaSpeeds, and mine was a 2011.  I needed a housing with EO number 3066-2.  Literally the same engine and same part. 

    You have to find one that is 100% approved for the specific vehicle and year.  Or just find a cool smog guy. 

    I suggest calling Holley/Edelbrock/FiTech and just asking them.  But with the apparent end of the world going on right now who knows if they're gonna pick up the phone. 
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #16 on: March 16, 2020, 12:52:03 pm »
    this is from the Atomic site on emissions

     

    This part is legal for sale and use on Emissions Controlled Vehicles, in all 50 states, when used in accordance with the manufacturers application guide because it has a California Air Resources Board (CARB) Executive Order (EO) number.

    The following vehicles are considered Emissions Controlled Vehicles:

        1966 and newer U.S. manufactured California Certified vehicles
        1968 and newer U.S. manufactured Federally Certified vehicles
        1968 and newer Foreign manufactured vehicle

    C.A.R.B. EO #D-722
    put your truck info HERE
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #17 on: March 16, 2020, 01:38:39 pm »
    The manufacturers application guides tell you what CARB EO applies to what vehicle.  It's insanely restrictive. 
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #18 on: March 16, 2020, 03:16:16 pm »
    this is from the Atomic site on emissions

     

    This part is legal for sale and use on Emissions Controlled Vehicles, in all 50 states, when used in accordance with the manufacturers application guide because it has a California Air Resources Board (CARB) Executive Order (EO) number.

    The following vehicles are considered Emissions Controlled Vehicles:

        1966 and newer U.S. manufactured California Certified vehicles
        1968 and newer U.S. manufactured Federally Certified vehicles
        1968 and newer Foreign manufactured vehicle

    C.A.R.B. EO #D-722

    Lower on the overiew tab, not the emissions tab it says:


    C.A.R.B. EO # D-722 applies to 1987 and older model year General Motors passenger cars and pickups with a V8 gasoline engine originally equipped with a carburetor.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #19 on: March 16, 2020, 03:19:46 pm »
    Y

    You have to find one that is 100% approved for the specific vehicle and year.  Or just find a cool smog guy. 

    I suggest calling Holley/Edelbrock/FiTech and just asking them.  But with the apparent end of the world going on right now who knows if they're gonna pick up the phone.
    This sounds like the best thing to do.
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #20 on: March 16, 2020, 03:26:24 pm »
    These sound like the best thing to do.

    Yea, I'll give them a call once this corona stuff blows over.
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #21 on: March 16, 2020, 11:06:33 pm »
    Until then, is there any material out there, books, online blogs, forum, anything that has information on this mid 80's feedback carb setup and how to diagnose it? I'd like to at least be able to use my truck.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #22 on: March 16, 2020, 11:19:52 pm »
    https://www.autozone.com/repairguides/Chrysler-Full-Size-Vans-1967-1988-Repair-Guide/Carbureted-Fuel-System/Holley-6280/_/P-0900c1528007fc7f

    Does your system use an oxygen sensor? Those often don't give an error code until the sensor gets very bad.
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #23 on: March 16, 2020, 11:21:06 pm »
    https://www.autozone.com/repairguides/Chrysler-Full-Size-Vans-1967-1988-Repair-Guide/Carbureted-Fuel-System/Holley-6280/_/P-0900c1528007fc7f

    Does your system use an oxygen sensor? Those often don't give an error code until the sensor gets very bad.

    Yes it does use an oxygen sensor. Driver side exhaust.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #24 on: March 16, 2020, 11:23:12 pm »
    Yes it does use an oxygen sensor. Driver side exhaust.

    if it were me, I would gamble on a new sensor but I have some disposable income I can waste.
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #25 on: March 16, 2020, 11:24:19 pm »
    if it were me, I would gamble on a new sensor but I have some disposable income I can waste.

    Just looked up some prices, not too bad to gamble on, its probably the original anyway.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1985,ramcharger,5.2l+318cid+v8,1097052,exhaust+&+emission,oxygen+(o2)+sensor,5132
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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #26 on: March 16, 2020, 11:26:04 pm »
    I would pick Bosch or Denso. Avoid Standard. Their standards have fallen lol
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #27 on: March 17, 2020, 12:18:18 pm »
    Lower on the overiew tab, not the emissions tab it says:


    C.A.R.B. EO # D-722 applies to 1987 and older model year General Motors passenger cars and pickups with a V8 gasoline engine originally equipped with a carburetor.


    thats ONLY if you have a 1987 an older Chevy = he has a DODGE so what l posted applies and NOT that
    put your truck info HERE
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #28 on: March 21, 2020, 09:52:49 pm »
    any update?
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #29 on: March 21, 2020, 10:02:55 pm »
    any update?
    Hey Toxic,

    I literally just finished putting in that new Denso 02 sensor. Hereís the old and the new if anyoneís interested. Not sure how these are supposed to look. Seems normal to me.

    I havenít hooked up the wiring, gotta go get a new crimper, mine just broke on me. Once I get it connected Iíll report back with any changes in idle quality.



    As far as the EFI / other upgrades I could make. Based on my research I have one of two options.

    1. MSD 6A ignition package. With Atomic EFI system. Both have CARB EO stamps. (~$1,800)

    2. I think I can get a holley 2280 as long as it has all of the same vacuum hose hookups and the electric vent bowl. I have seen some on eBay for about 200 bucks. And then also switch over to the MSD ignition pack. (~$1,000) I need to double check this carburetor option to make sure itíll pass the eye test. I would rather do this instead of going to EFI if possible.


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    Offline thegrid22593

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #30 on: March 24, 2020, 03:15:08 am »
    So Iím still waiting on some parts to come in the mail but I want ted pose a question to hold me over :)

    I have been doing a bunch of research and it seems that I can do a direct replacement with a Holley 2280 as long as it has all of the vacuum ports and the electronic vent bowl solenoid.

    If I were to buy one of these and replace the current Holley 6280, would I need to immediately replace the ignition system as well since itís all technically part of the lean burn system or will the current ignition system work ok with this carb?


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    « Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 03:18:24 am by thegrid22593 »
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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #31 on: March 24, 2020, 03:48:07 am »
    The issue is usually the other way around - if you replace the Lean Burn Ignition, you have to replace the carb because of the mixture control solenoid. Removing the carb to a non-feedback type might work, but I wonder what effect it could have on the timing.

     "Carburetor throttle open or closed. This sensor operates a timing counter which remembers how long and how often the throttle is open or closed. It allows full spark advance at highway speeds but in city driving spark advance is modulated to control exhaust emissions."

    https://www.allpar.com/mopar/lean-burn.html
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #32 on: March 28, 2020, 08:45:56 pm »
    Alright, update on this, finally got the parts I needed for the 02 sensor, got that installed and still no change in idle quality.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #33 on: March 29, 2020, 06:08:51 am »
    that sucks. I was hoping it would be your solution. All I can say is that the Lean Burn is awful, no one likes it. I remember in the late 80s my friends with Lean Burn always had issues like this and figuring it out was difficult.
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #34 on: March 29, 2020, 03:05:27 pm »
    that sucks. I was hoping it would be your solution. All I can say is that the Lean Burn is awful, no one likes it. I remember in the late 80s my friends with Lean Burn always had issues like this and figuring it out was difficult.

    Eh, no worries it was worth a shot. One less variable I guess. Thatís what seems to be the case for most people on this forum.

    I need to fix a vacuum leak down stream on a bad repair job from a past owner and then Iíll probably just go get it smogged to get a baseline and heck I may just pass.

    Then Iíll look into swapping over to MSD ignition and getting a Holley 2280. Probably have to wait a bit to save up some money and after this corona virus stuff.

    I would rather do an hei ignition with a GM Ignition module, seems like thatís a bit more reliable and tested. I have heard stories of those MSD ignition boxes just dying and leaving you stranded wherever you are, but I donít think thatís smog legal here in CA


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    « Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 03:09:19 pm by thegrid22593 »
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #35 on: March 30, 2020, 04:49:29 pm »
    I performed a vacuum test on the engine in gear warmed up and you can see it bounces around slightly but not too bad. Sometimes gets down to the the late ignition timing zone so I am thinking its the spark control computer.

    To confirm it wasn't late ignition timing, I have adjusted my distributor forward and back and either way of just tens of a centimeter move makes the truck run worse.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/unok98rvi9smbl7/IMG_9610.mov?dl=0

    Let me know what you guys think.
    « Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:52:27 pm by thegrid22593 »
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #36 on: March 30, 2020, 04:50:35 pm »
    I also did a test of disconnecting the plug that goes to the carburetor. It idles and accels a bit better but still have some issue with idling, you can hear it stumble and I am pretty sure it misses every once a while. One of the cylinders on the passenger side, again I am thinking spark control computer.
    « Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:53:16 pm by thegrid22593 »
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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #37 on: March 30, 2020, 05:21:13 pm »
    It likely is. You can do a couple more checks if you're interested in chasing down all leads - a compression test and also checking for a manifold gasket leak that leads to that cylinder.
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #38 on: April 7, 2020, 03:57:28 pm »
    I don't know much about the lean burn system, sounds like I don't want to either.

    Take it from someone who just smogged a 79 Power Wagon, there are not many "cool" smog guys in CA. The BAR program has made it incredibly tough on them if they are caught reporting false certificates and are actively running sting operations to catch shops in the act.

    However, it is a good idea to talk to a couple of smog guys to find out what they are looking at. Of course there is the sniff test BUT you also have to pass the visual test. Open element air cleaners are prohibited no matter how clean they blow. Same with most aftermarket carbs, intakes, and headers. Most of the guys now don't know what was there and what wasn't from mid 70s to mid 90s and go by some reference manuals. If it kinda, sorta looks mostly right, good chance they will pass the visual. So not too much shiny stuff or obvious places where something was removed (smog pump/EGR).

    What type of stickers are under your hood? If that says lean system, you make be under the gun to keep and fix it. For my truck, it has an Edelbrock performer 3776 with EGR port. Edelbrock deemed it as very close to factory and a viable replacement for factory intake. I had to replace the carb with a Edelbrock 1400 card with EGR.

    If lean burn isn't working correctly, and parts aren't readily available, you may be able to take it to a REF who can guide you on getting it up to sniff with readily available parts.

    I would certainly suggest using Covid time to research the boards, CA CARB, and CA ref websites to research. Plus wouldn't spend a ton of money until you talk to a couple of smog shops or referee station. Work smart not hard. Take it from someone who originally started replacing everything in sight before learning the hard way.
    1979 Power Wagon 4x4
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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #39 on: April 7, 2020, 04:18:53 pm »
    I don't know much about the lean burn system, sounds like I don't want to either.

    Take it from someone who just smogged a 79 Power Wagon, there are not many "cool" smog guys in CA. The BAR program has made it incredibly tough on them if they are caught reporting false certificates and are actively running sting operations to catch shops in the act.

    However, it is a good idea to talk to a couple of smog guys to find out what they are looking at. Of course there is the sniff test BUT you also have to pass the visual test. Open element air cleaners are prohibited no matter how clean they blow. Same with most aftermarket carbs, intakes, and headers. Most of the guys now don't know what was there and what wasn't from mid 70s to mid 90s and go by some reference manuals. If it kinda, sorta looks mostly right, good chance they will pass the visual. So not too much shiny stuff or obvious places where something was removed (smog pump/EGR).

    What type of stickers are under your hood? If that says lean system, you make be under the gun to keep and fix it. For my truck, it has an Edelbrock performer 3776 with EGR port. Edelbrock deemed it as very close to factory and a viable replacement for factory intake. I had to replace the carb with a Edelbrock 1400 card with EGR.

    If lean burn isn't working correctly, and parts aren't readily available, you may be able to take it to a REF who can guide you on getting it up to sniff with readily available parts.

    I would certainly suggest using Covid time to research the boards, CA CARB, and CA ref websites to research. Plus wouldn't spend a ton of money until you talk to a couple of smog shops or referee station. Work smart not hard. Take it from someone who originally started replacing everything in sight before learning the hard way.
    Great ideas rod, Iíll give some stations a call when I have some time during this covid stuff.

    I just took some photos of the stickers under the hood. It doesnít specifically say lean burn but does talk about emissions.

    Let me know if they are big enough to read the fine print :)







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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #40 on: April 7, 2020, 05:08:35 pm »
    First photo, lower right-hand corner: ESA = Electronic Spark Advance = Lean Burn
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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    1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #41 on: April 7, 2020, 05:19:29 pm »
    First photo, lower right-hand corner: ESA = Electronic Spark Advance = Lean Burn
    I see so does this rule me out completely for even the CARB certified replacements talked about earlier in this thread?


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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #42 on: April 7, 2020, 05:30:08 pm »
    I'm no expert on CARB rules, but I would think so since they were listing them for GM vehicles not Chrysler. A CARB ref would be a better person to ask.

    I would look for another hood from the same year that has a sticker with traditional ignition...
    '85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #43 on: April 7, 2020, 05:43:29 pm »
    I don't know much about the lean burn system, sounds like I don't want to either.

    Take it from someone who just smogged a 79 Power Wagon, there are not many "cool" smog guys in CA. The BAR program has made it incredibly tough on them if they are caught reporting false certificates and are actively running sting operations to catch shops in the act.

    However, it is a good idea to talk to a couple of smog guys to find out what they are looking at. Of course there is the sniff test BUT you also have to pass the visual test. Open element air cleaners are prohibited no matter how clean they blow. Same with most aftermarket carbs, intakes, and headers. Most of the guys now don't know what was there and what wasn't from mid 70s to mid 90s and go by some reference manuals. If it kinda, sorta looks mostly right, good chance they will pass the visual. So not too much shiny stuff or obvious places where something was removed (smog pump/EGR).


    Good points Rod.

    Funny story... Way back in '91, I went to Dick Landy's shop up in Northridge, California to have my first Big Block stroker put together by them. This was back when I was a little dumber than I am now. And it was early for Big Block 440's being turned into strokers. So I went to the "experts".
    Mike Landy and myself started up a conversation about the smog laws. He related to me a story back in the early 80's when California was really starting to crank up the smog inspections. They had an employee who was very upset that he had to get his performance car inspected. He was worried it would never pass.
    Mike told him to bring the car around back to the shop, opened the hood and poured oil over everything under it. Then he told him to do a few laps around the dusty vacant lot across the street. He then took it to the inspection station and when the inspector opened the hood, he said quite a few nasty words, shut the hood and said "You passed!"  Those days are gone unfortunately.
    When I went for my smog inspections before my truck became "exempt"... the inspectors had no clue what the difference was between a Big Block or Small Block Dodge. So I was able to skate a little on some items. Actually my truck never had a Big Block as an option... so I was able to skate 140 ci's.  ;D
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #44 on: April 7, 2020, 05:47:13 pm »
    I'm no expert on CARB rules, but I would think so since they were listing them for GM vehicles not Chrysler. A CARB ref would be a better person to ask.

    I would look for another hood from the same year that has a sticker with traditional ignition...
    Then swap the stickers.  ;D
    I didn't say that by the way.
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

    Offline rod1701

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #45 on: April 8, 2020, 04:38:57 pm »
    Or you can gently "clean" with lacquer thinner. Paying a little extra attention to bottom right. it'll strip every bit of ink off leaving sticker clean and white. Don't ask how I know.....
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    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #46 on: April 8, 2020, 11:58:36 pm »
    Or you can gently "clean" with lacquer thinner. Paying a little extra attention to bottom right. it'll strip every bit of ink off leaving sticker clean and white. Don't ask how I know.....
    Psssttt! Good idea.
    Get the black printed lines too.

    The smog laws are just ridiculous.
    With some decent knowledge, one can build a way better engine: more efficient, cleaner burning, with better mileage than you can get out of a lean burn set up. But, BUT it wouldn't pass the visual.  ::)
    Typical government rules and regulations... no common sense.
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #47 on: April 9, 2020, 10:40:54 pm »
    Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I will definitely be reaching out to some carb refs and smog stations very soon.

    Until then, kind of a shot in the dark, but... I noticed when the engine is running at fast idle, no punch to the gas at at all the cam screw on the carburetor should be on the second highest step of the cam and it is... it runs really smooth at the high idle, I don't have a tachometer but it definitely sounds like its north of 1200 rpm.

    I'll let it sit here for about 5-10 mins while I let the engine warm... After that allotted time I drop the truck into gear or give it small tap of gas, the idle drops down and begins to run pretty rough, (it sounds like its not idling high enough) even when warm, not operating temp, but warmed up a bit, so I am wondering if its just a small adjustment needed on the carb, specifically the idle cam screw.

    Does anyone know if after you open throttle, should the cam screw still be on a step of the cam at a certain point or is it by design for the cam to fall and the screw not to be touching anywhere? I am thinking this might be my problem and the idle is too low because of this.

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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #48 on: April 9, 2020, 11:34:56 pm »
    there IS a vacume choke "pull off" can the brings you rpm down when you blip the throttle , BUT it does so ONLY so much ,( sounds like that IS working) then the bimetal choke "stove" brings it down the rest of the way as it warms . What you discribe tells me that the choke is closed TOO much , after you blip it , its getting TOO little air for the amount of choke and it begins to "load up" blows black smoke and chugs . Adjust the choke rod so it is less closed . It can be tricky because you only get 1 chance each time , because the motor has to FULLY cool before you can try again . Shops were forced to keep customers autos over night in order to adjust a choke properly ..  After it is fully warmed check that the choke plate is vertical/wide open , a partly closed choke will BLOW every smog test ..
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #49 on: April 9, 2020, 11:41:36 pm »
    a partly closed choke will BLOW every smog test ..
    The dreaded "unburned hydrocarbons".
    That's why when building engines that need to pass smog, you want a cam with no overlap.
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #50 on: April 10, 2020, 12:21:10 am »
    there IS a vacume choke "pull off" can the brings you rpm down when you blip the throttle , BUT it does so ONLY so much ,( sounds like that IS working) then the bimetal choke "stove" brings it down the rest of the way as it warms . What you discribe tells me that the choke is closed TOO much , after you blip it , its getting TOO little air for the amount of choke and it begins to "load up" blows black smoke and chugs . Adjust the choke rod so it is less closed . It can be tricky because you only get 1 chance each time , because the motor has to FULLY cool before you can try again . Shops were forced to keep customers autos over night in order to adjust a choke properly ..  After it is fully warmed check that the choke plate is vertical/wide open , a partly closed choke will BLOW every smog test ..

    Thanks Dodge,

    Yes the choke pull off and choke stove work, infact both of those parts are brand new.

    I attached a couple photos of the carb, if I have my parts correct, the arm going down to the manifold is the choke stove and the pull off is the gold diaphragm looking thing on the left. Is the choke Rod the linkage between pull off and the stove arm or is it the other side connected to the cam? Which color arrow?




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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #51 on: April 10, 2020, 03:27:04 am »
    you have your parts correctly identified . The green arrow side, the s shape goes to the pull off , the straight rod going down to the "stove" is the one that needs adjusting . If you look at the choke plate , you see that its fully closed , maybe tightly even . I don't know how to draw on this puter like you did , but the straight rod , needs a zig zag bent into it , 2 pliers , you don't want the bottom end to drag on the tin there, but you want to shorten that rod
    it will likely end up looking vertical as it enters the "stove" .. this should open the plate some more after bliping the gas then it does now . Perhaps post a pix of the cold engine running after you have blipped it and the choke pull off pulled it off a little ?   I'm assuming this pix is cold not running , not blipped ... full choke is only good untill it starts THEN it HAS to open some , warm it must be   FULLY     open .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #52 on: April 10, 2020, 01:02:16 pm »
    you have your parts correctly identified . The green arrow side, the s shape goes to the pull off , the straight rod going down to the "stove" is the one that needs adjusting . If you look at the choke plate , you see that its fully closed , maybe tightly even . I don't know how to draw on this puter like you did , but the straight rod , needs a zig zag bent into it , 2 pliers , you don't want the bottom end to drag on the tin there, but you want to shorten that rod
    it will likely end up looking vertical as it enters the "stove" .. this should open the plate some more after bliping the gas then it does now . Perhaps post a pix of the cold engine running after you have blipped it and the choke pull off pulled it off a little ?   I'm assuming this pix is cold not running , not blipped ... full choke is only good untill it starts THEN it HAS to open some , warm it must be   FULLY     open .

    Hey Dodge, yes you are correct that photo is cold not running. I will do some before after photos today when I get a chance on on the engine cold vs cold and bliped. I'll see if I can even get a video of the whole thing so you can watch the process.
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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #53 on: April 12, 2020, 07:28:13 pm »
    Alright, finally got around to getting some photos of the different stages here.

    I'll do three separate replies to organize accordingly, this first reply has three photos of not running cold. Hasn't been started in over 24 hours.



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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #54 on: April 12, 2020, 07:30:19 pm »
    This reply is cold and just started, so choke pull off brings the choke open slightly.

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #55 on: April 12, 2020, 07:36:08 pm »
    These next three links are videos

    1st video: Running at fast idle, haven't blipped the throttle at all. Idle is high but smooth

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/whadr3xpzm39bc8/fast-idle.mov?dl=0

    2nd video: Blipped throttle and stall ( this happens quite a lot, usually starts right up again and runs like third video)

    Dodge, I think this is what you were talking about for when I blip the throttle I can see the choke opens just a bit more but you were saying its not enough? Does that look suspect here? Barely opens more.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3c3xp8mmoik52pp/blip-gas-stall.mov?dl=0

    3rd Video: After blipped throttle and running, you can see and hear when it misses cause the air cleaner threads pole will shake and you can hear the rpms change.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/teklv093hoh74kn/bliped-gas-running.mov?dl=0
    « Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 07:40:24 pm by thegrid22593 »
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    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #56 on: April 12, 2020, 11:08:33 pm »
    That carburetor looks like it came off a Briggs and Straton.  ;)
    « Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 06:57:43 pm by KurtfromLaQuinta »
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #57 on: April 13, 2020, 01:17:22 am »
    That carburetor looks like it came off a Briggs and Stratton.  ;)

    Hahaha yea
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #58 on: April 13, 2020, 02:43:17 am »
    na... its a 2 barrel
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #59 on: April 13, 2020, 09:55:59 pm »
    na... its a 2 barrel
    It's soooo tiny.  ;D
    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #60 on: April 13, 2020, 10:01:31 pm »
    Were you all able to see the videos, just want to make sure they are working for you.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline KurtfromLaQuinta

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #61 on: April 13, 2020, 10:02:23 pm »
    Nah.
    These are two barrels...

    500 c.i.- Scat Crank, Scat Rods, Indy Aluminum heads, Comp XR280HR Cam, Six-Pack, Milodon 8 qt. Pan, 727  (reverse-manual, low band apply, 5 clutch disc, 3 qt. xtra. pan), N.P. 205, Ford 9" rear axle (4:11, 31 spline axles, Detroit Locker, converted/ disc brakes). Dana 44 front (converted/ disc, 4:10, Tru-Trac limited slip). Hydra Boost Brake Booster, Gear Vendors OD. 600+ ft. lbs. of torque

    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #62 on: April 14, 2020, 05:07:20 am »
    WELL !! it actually looks to be the opposite of what I suspected , fixing stuff virtually is NOT so good , easy . LOL

     Now what I see , ( IF your engine was COLD like overnite cold , when you began the videos ) you choke plate is NOT closing enough / long enough , the pull off is working , it comes down off the high idle cam part way , at which point the choke appears almost fully OPEN , So , either the small s link between the pull off and choke shaft plate ( pass side ) is too short , OR the choke stove needs to pull the choke tighter closed , or a tad of both ... either way , its close , I might start with tighter closed . How old is the "stove " in the manifold ?


     I looked at your previous pix , they do not match the videos , so the choke stove rod , straight is as "tight" as it can adjust , bending that rod can only lessen the choke , so I reverse some of what I said above
     try this first , driver side , the screw that contacts the stepped high idle cam , screw it IN a little , raise the high idle rpms , so when your pull off pulls off , it is a little more rpms that I hear on the video .. Just be sure that when the choke is warm or held open that screw tip does not rest on the cam at all , it can TOUCH the slowest part of the cam , but the electric thingie there is suppose to be in control at that point ... other than that , the pull off's little s rod needs to be opened/lenghtened just a  LITTLE bit ...  it is close to working ...
    « Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 05:46:06 am by dodge82273 »
    78 to 93 parts trucks
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    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #63 on: April 14, 2020, 12:07:47 pm »
    How old is the "stove " in the manifold ?

    Thanks Dodge, makes sense. The stove is only maybe 3 months old. I always thought the choke opened pretty quickly just didn't really understand what they meant fully.

    I will screw in the high idle cam screw a bit more and see if I can get the choke plate to be more closed when cold not running by adjusting the rod coming off the stove.

    Like you said, minor adjustments first, start the truck, then wait another day to make adjustments again if needed. I'll let you know how it goes today hoepfully with some more choke pictures.
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

    Offline thegrid22593

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    Re: 1985 RC 318 With Lean Burn California Smog
    « Reply #64 on: May 28, 2020, 11:43:54 pm »
    Wow! It's been a while looking at these dates. Sorry I ghosted everyone there for about a month, was dealing some work stuff for this COVID thing.

    Anyway, just adjusted the S arm on the pull off tonight to lengthen it a bit. Going to start her up tomorrow to see how she fairs.

    I'll let you know!
    1985 RC 150LE 4X4 318 | 727A

     

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