Author Topic: toggle switch for ignition?  (Read 12871 times)

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Offline pjc360

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toggle switch for ignition?
« on: August 19, 2012, 11:01:13 pm »
insteaad of replacing a burnt out ignition switch wouldnt it be ok to just wire in a toggle switch and have a toggle switch power the ignition?
and would you need a special kind of toggle switch? like say a 14 or 16 or 18 or even a 20 amp toggle switch? i would guess a 20 amp toggle switch could power a mopar ecu ignition box without robbing the ignition of any power correct? whats the most heavy duty toggle switch available? do they make toggle switches that are above 20 amps?
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    Offline 85 Royal SE Prospector

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 11:35:09 pm »
    Fix the switch.
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    Offline Captain Obvious

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 11:59:31 pm »
    They do and you could. It isnt recommended usually. Most are for hacked purposes and the wiring job is equally hacked, thus leading to more problems. Same reason kill switches, alarns, and stereos get a bad wrap. The average person who comes up with an idea to hack in a toggle, tends to use wire nuts, cheesy yellow or blue hard plastic butt connectors, bare twisted splices covered in electrical tape, or those stupid pinch splices.

    A toggle could be sufficient, but if you are cutting corners on replacing original switch, will corners be cut on doing a clean professional wire job too?

    PS:
    Switch amp rating isnt important IF you add an underhood relay, as the relay itself becomes the sacrificial wear point. They just happen to be cheap and easy to replace.

    Offline KThaxton

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 10:09:49 am »
    STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

    You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

    Offline Trailduster79

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 12:07:13 pm »
    When I bought my Samurai, it did not have an ignition switch.  I wound up using a toggle switch to turn the ignition on, and then a push button momentary switch for the starter.

    Worked great.
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 12:09:54 pm »
    ...I wound up using a toggle switch to turn the ignition on, and then a push button momentary switch for the starter.

    Worked great.

    ...I'm doing the same thing to my next truck, clean and simple {cool}.  I'm doing a 'military' theme hence the simplistic wiring, but same idea.
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    Offline pjc360

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 12:54:18 pm »
    so if your not using a relay the amperage of the toggle switch becomes important correct? would a 50 amp toggle switch be sufficient enough to power a mopar ecu ignition?
    1991 power ram 150

    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 01:01:07 pm »
    'correct' to the first question, and 'I have no idea' to the second... but 50 amps is a lot, probably that would be way more than enough.  You could also power it with like a 40amp resettable curcuit breaker.  Maybe give the MSD tech folks a call and ask them what size fuse they use for their 6al boxes?
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    Offline pjc360

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 03:43:32 pm »
    i talked to the parts department manager at the dodge dealership and he said that a 50 amp toggle switch would be enough to power the ignition without a relay. He said if i was trying to power the starter with a toggle switch then ya i'd need a relay. But all i'm going to do is splce a wire into the ecu power wire and then run a wire off of my starter selnoid to power the toggle switch and it should work. He said he has seen it done a million times.
    I had just read that you wanna make sure you have a sufficient toggle switch so that power is not being robbed from your ignition system. I think the 50 amp toggle switch will keep everything even on an old mopar electronic ignition.
    1991 power ram 150

    Offline Captain Obvious

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 05:32:37 pm »
    so if your not using a relay the amperage of the toggle switch becomes important correct? would a 50 amp toggle switch be sufficient enough to power a mopar ecu ignition?

    More than just your ecu is powered off the switch. Coil, alternator field, heater blower motor, and stereo amongst other things.

    If you cant turn it on without the key, then it feeds off ignition. Or if it automatically turns off when you turn off key.

    The blower motor itself is 20-25amps. Figure about 7amps for ignition, 5 for alternator, up to 20 for cd player, along with head space for inrush current.


    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 08:01:12 pm »
    Keep in mind, there is 2 different ignition circuits, plus the starter circuit.  Ign 1 powers the engine stuff, and stays on as long as the key is turned. Ign 2, is for the radio, and other electronic stuff, it turns off when the starter is engaged, to protect the radio from voltage spikes that often happen as the alternator starts up.
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 08:23:18 pm »
    that's a good point, and it matters more in my case because of running the diesel - I have no 'ignition system' and so all of my 12v switched power can all be just that - switched, all on the same, single circuit.
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    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 08:35:15 pm »
    that's a good point, and it matters more in my case because of running the diesel - I have no 'ignition system' and so all of my 12v switched power can all be just that - switched, all on the same, single circuit.
    You still want your AM/FM radio to turn off while the engine is cranking. your FSO will want to be on a circuit that does not shut off while cranking. You could easily rig the radio to a solenoid to turn it off with the power from the start button.
    « Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:39:37 pm by SuperBurban »
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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 08:59:09 pm »
    i got a capacitor installed in the ignition power line for my stereo so it stays on while i am starting my truck or so it can stay on for a few seconds after i shut off my truck.

    as far as wiring goes this might help. 3 wires need power when truck is on and 1 is for starting.
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 09:24:04 pm »
    ...I'm trying to remember hoe I did nacho when I wired it up.  I think I took starter relay hot power and spliced in the FSO to that...or something.  It worked perfectly tho
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    Offline impish

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #15 on: August 21, 2012, 12:58:13 am »
    could also run 2...like the ign1 and 2 circuits.... one for the critical running then acessory on the other
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    Offline KThaxton

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #16 on: August 21, 2012, 08:39:42 am »
    It sure would be easier to just replace the existing switch.
    STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

    You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #17 on: August 21, 2012, 08:50:19 am »
    It sure would be easier to just replace the existing switch.

    ..........ohhhhh that's no fun........

                                                   .............................buy yah it would be a lot simpler........
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    Offline KThaxton

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #18 on: August 21, 2012, 10:22:09 am »
    ..........ohhhhh that's no fun........

     

    Well, there's certainly no fun in any dash wiring! especially when it doesn't net you anything fun, new or cool. I'm a lazy man, if I'm going through that much work, I better gain something from it.  ;)
    STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

    You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

    Offline Hybrid

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #19 on: August 21, 2012, 11:15:57 am »
    ....and another Dodge truck is relegated to a life of harness hacks, coat hanger fuse replacements, wire nuts, and toggle switches/push buttons.

    Offline Trailduster79

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 09:05:43 am »
    Since there is a starter relay already wired into the system, why would you need a relay in the circut for the momentary starter button?

    Granted, the electrical system in a Samurai is far less burdonsome on components, but I ran all my ignition with no relays for almost 3 years with no problems.
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    Offline Captain Obvious

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #21 on: August 23, 2012, 12:28:51 pm »
    Who mentioned needing a 2nd starter relay?

    Offline Trailduster79

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #22 on: August 23, 2012, 12:35:38 pm »
    Who mentioned needing a 2nd starter relay?

    So, the only additional relay we are talking about is the one in the actual ignition circut and not the starter circut?

    I must have read it wrong.
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    Offline pjc360

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 12:50:45 am »
    i have my toggle switch wired into ignition number 1. My heater will not turn on untill the key is turned on same with my stereo. the key still starts the engine, it just wont fire unless the toggle switch is flipped on. and when the truck is running i can shut the key off and it still runs untill i flip the toggle switch off.
    1991 power ram 150

    Offline Mike Barf

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #24 on: August 25, 2012, 02:40:59 am »
    sounds like it is wired funny, should be wired into the momentary start position only, or have more than one toggle.

      for a full row of toggle units, normally goes

      cab acc on, and some split those
      engine acc on,
      momentary start.

     the engine acc would be the kill unit, shut it off and kills ignition power, momentary start should only run power to the starter relay,

      brain surgeon I had worked with had it set up like yours, and after a long drive ended up with melted parts on and behind the dash, and nearly a fire.

      hopefully you have no such issues.

     luck to you on this one

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    Offline powerwagon78

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #25 on: August 25, 2012, 12:12:37 pm »
    Please exercise caution if you are going to do this...the moron I bought my truck from did the same thing, and apparently didn't use near big enough of a toggle switch, because the wires were melting around it and the switch itself was shot, and it wasn't very old...it really isn't very hard at all to replace an ignition switch, and it would look cleaner if you just did it the right way...

    On another note, did someone mention the blower motor drawing 20 amps?  Holy shit thats a lot!  :o

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    Offline KThaxton

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #26 on: August 25, 2012, 01:13:13 pm »
    it really isn't very hard at all to replace an ignition switch, and it would look cleaner if you just did it the right way...


     8)
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    Offline Captain Obvious

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #27 on: August 25, 2012, 01:36:48 pm »


    On another note, did someone mention the blower motor drawing 20 amps?  Holy shit thats a lot!  :o

    Jeremy

    Amp checked to verify.

    Different vehicles vary slightly but it is a widely measured ball park. Thats why dodges of the era have burnt ignition switch connectors many times. Even the ones that havent melted yet, often have blued metal terminals indicating past heat levels. A popular mod is dedicated direct relay for the high speed fan position. The lower speeds have resistors that take the heat and limit current, but high speeds only "current limiting resistor" are the connectors themselves.

    Offline comrade cheddar

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #28 on: August 25, 2012, 02:20:24 pm »
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #29 on: August 25, 2012, 03:22:42 pm »
    x4 rock auto has them listed for anywhere from $20-$50 which is cheap in my opinion.
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    Offline Captain Obvious

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #30 on: August 25, 2012, 03:30:58 pm »
    Too late, he already hacked it.

    Offline pjc360

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #31 on: August 25, 2012, 04:51:20 pm »
    for now anyways, i will eventually replace the ignition switch itself. And the wiring on this truck was already far beyond hacked lol, i have cleaned up the wiring alot on this truck. almost everything under the hood has been re-wired. My ecu connector has been replaced with a brand new one, my voltage regulator wiring is new my field wires are new. My battery cables are new.  I'm running a heavy duty 50 amp toggle switch, i guess i could wire in a 4 prong relay just to be even more safe, untill i get around to replacing the ignition switch its self.
    1991 power ram 150

    Offline vogey

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    Re: toggle switch for ignition?
    « Reply #32 on: August 26, 2012, 07:38:01 am »
    I used the trunk button from old lincoln for years as push.  Button start on my bronco had 2 toggles for ignition on Geo  worked great
    cant beat the song of a well tuned 440 spinnin 6k through the pit