Author Topic: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram  (Read 1125 times)

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Offline RedneckInTraining

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Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
« on: May 25, 2020, 08:33:25 pm »
So I took my 96 dodge ram 1500 gambler 500 truck to a gambler event this weekend.Everything worked great right up until I sheared off all 5 wheel studs on the left rear wheel while I was bombing down a forest road at about 40 mph. All of the wheel studs sheared off 1-2 threads from the splines and without warning, so I'm thinking that the 2 1/2 years that I have been abusing the hell out of that truck with a welded rear diff took its toll on the lug studs. I stole 2 of the lug studs from the other rear wheel and was able to limp it back to camp and I was able to get a ride back into town and get replacements the next day. I'm wondering if it would be possible to put 3/4 ton lug studs on instead to hopefully prevent this in the future?

When the wheel studs shear off naturally the drum came off along with it and mangled all of the hardware on the left rear wheel.Apparently the previous owner screwed up the right rear brakes because they are fubar as well. Anyone have a detailed picture showing how everything is supposed to go back together?

My fuel gauge is currently reading extra full, so I'm assuming the wire for it broke. Which wire should I be checking at the fuel tank?
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    Offline pir2

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 07:46:38 am »
    From a 2001 manual.  Maybe this will help.
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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 12:56:40 pm »
    cant help with studs but the fuel gauge sending wire is likely grounded   (touching metal)
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    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 01:43:14 pm »
    The older trucks, the lugs are the same thread size, but different size in the knurled area. Result is they will not fit, and if they did, you gain no advantage. The advantage is in the number of lugs.

    With a lot of research, you likely can find some 9/16 studs with the same kunrled area. Or even find one a bit larger, then get a machine shop to ream out the axle to the right size. The drum you could drill out larger yourself, it is not that critiacle.

    That all being said, It would take a ton of beating to break all five lugs if they were tightened correctly. Do you have aluminum rims? were the lugs re-torqued 100 or so miles after they were last removed? Did you find any lugs with the nuts still on? Any other lugs on the truck break? My bet is they were loose, which allowed the leverage to snap the lugs. I also bet you have aluminum wheels, they are notorious for letting the nuts loosen, and then break the lugs.
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 03:09:36 pm »
    Yes, aluminum wheels. I was in a group so I didn't personally find the lug nuts but three were found. I overheard one person saying they found one with the stud still attached. I was busy working on the truck so I didnt get a chance to personally look for all the parts.
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    Offline u2slow

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 03:19:45 pm »
    Could very likely have been over-torque/stretched.

    A set of new replacement studs should be all it takes. They are 1/2" after all.... not 7/16" like older Chevy half-ton 4x4s.
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 04:26:31 pm »
    may be made in China counterfits were in there . agreed , install new studs properly tighten them , recheck ( they can/do take a "seat") call it good . If your style of abuse again causes this problem , try steel wheels or r/r axle assembly for a 3/4-1 ton set with more bolts to help withstand abuse .
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    Offline RXT

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 07:40:22 pm »
    A couple of decades ago, I worked with a guy that did roofing work. He had an old 78 F150 that was always loaded down with tools and equipment. One day, four of the five the studs on the left rear snapped as he pulled out of a parking space.
    My conclusion for the failure was fatigue. I would guess the same for your truck. The hub doesn't contribute in supporting the rim. All the load is on the studs.

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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #8 on: May 26, 2020, 08:39:57 pm »
    Would steel inserts in the lug holes be a good idea? I still like aluminum rims because they are much lighter than steel wheels...

    As far as the lugs go the ones I got from the parts store were cheap chinesium. The ones that broke were the oem ones and it was readily apparent they were made out of much better material.
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    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #9 on: May 26, 2020, 09:50:37 pm »
    If you look at a steel wheel, and compare it to the aluminum, you will see the steel wheel does not set against the hub where the lug nuts fit. That gives a spring like effect to keep tension on the lug nut. Aluminum just has the 3/4" of aluminum. Thats why you need to recheck them after 50 to 100 miles.

    Steel inserts will only add strength to the lug hole, nothing that will help you.

    With aluminum wheels, check the torque every few months, and make it a habit to look at the lug nuts when you walk up to the truck. I would bet you lost two of the lug nuts 50 to 100 miles ago, the third on the ttrail, and then the last two within the last mile.

    Could be worse. I had the rear wheel of a suburban pass me on the highway. of course going down hill, so I had to hike a good mile for it. I had the burban state inspected the week before, and that was one of the wheels they removed. Also, Within the hour before, I heard what sounded like rocks being kicked up and hitting the wheel well twice. Now I know they were not rocks.

    Since, I have seen almost the same story on here at least a dozen times.
    « Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:00:12 pm by SuperBurban »
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #10 on: May 26, 2020, 11:45:36 pm »
    So I found something interesting. The 02-11 ram 1500 use a 9/16-18 lug stud with it has almost an identical knurl diameter of .666 vs .667. In theory that could be bad but who knows how tight the tolerances are on aftermarket wheelstuds. The 02 ram studs are also a little longer...I might have to drive down to the local napa and compare them with some of the old and new wheel studs that I now keep as spares.
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #11 on: May 27, 2020, 01:30:00 am »
    hummm , so you have your solution , studs and nuts too big for your rims , need different rims too ,  kewl .

    ford had a tsb out on its dualie wheel studs , yeah all 8 would snap off at highway speeds on a paved road ... then the lawyers would try to sue the last fella who had a wheel off , even if it was over a year back .... good thing for that fella the tsb was found  and was never done .... all it was was replacing the studs with  better grade ones .
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #12 on: May 27, 2020, 12:58:01 pm »
    Exactly how much clearance is supposed to be between the lug holes and the studs? 9/16 studs fit in the factory wheels.
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    Offline SuperBurban

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #13 on: May 27, 2020, 01:44:05 pm »
    My Van has 5/8" studs, and the same wheels as a standard 8 lug setup. They are snug, but fit. What ever size, make sure the lugs fit the rim. Some have a flat spot on the bottom, they likely will not work on your rims with bigger lugs.

    Unlike these lugs, you want them to fit the hole in wheel. These you can see are too small to fit the wheel. The selected lugs are as important, if not more important then the lug size.
    « Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 01:46:13 pm by SuperBurban »
    77 W200, 360/727/NP203/D44HD/D60 (Wifes Toy)
    77 M887- 318/727/NP203 D44HD/D60
    78/86 Ramcharger.  360/727/NP203 D44/9&1/4
    85/89/90 D150/W250 5.9TBI/435/241 D44HD/D60HD
    85 W350 360/727/241 D44HD/D60
    97 B3500 5.9MPFI/518 D60HD
    20 Pacifica Hybrid, 3.6 V6, EVT 1 speed trans.
    projects:
    85 Country Coach RV, 5.9 Cummins/TH475,GV od,US gear Exhaust brake,D70HD (4 wheel disk brakes, 10 lug 19.5 rims.

    Offline u2slow

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #14 on: May 27, 2020, 03:11:16 pm »
    Exactly how much clearance is supposed to be between the lug holes and the studs? 9/16 studs fit in the factory wheels.

    There's some fudge-factor. The trick is to assess the fit with the nuts you have.

    If they're not 'pointy' enough to engage the tapered seat in the wheel, get different nuts that are.
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #15 on: May 27, 2020, 07:00:07 pm »
    So looks like I can use the 9/16-18 studs off a 2005-10 dodge dakota. Same knurl diameter just a bit longer. For now I'll just replace the rear ones, and then run the oem front front ones. I'll keep some front and rear studs in the truck, just in case. Although I'll see what would prevent me from running bigger studs in the front.I don't think that 1/2-20 studs should be stressed on the front of my truck due to the severe weight reduction up there, but it might be nice to have extra spare parts and interchange ability.

    Apparently the trophy trucks run 5/8 and 11/16 wheel studs to combat the same issue.
    « Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 07:02:53 pm by RedneckInTraining »
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    Offline u2slow

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #16 on: May 28, 2020, 01:04:35 pm »
    On the front, the studs sit in the unit bearing. You'd have to fit new studs any time you replaced one.

    IMHO, you're more likely to explode the D44 or 9.25" next. 8-lug diffs bolt right in.
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #17 on: June 5, 2020, 11:09:17 am »
    Its got a 9.25 in the back seems pretty stout for a widdle v6 and a slushbox(for now).

    I was able to go to the local  self pull yard and got 10 wheel lugs and matching lugnuts off a gently used 2005 durango. I also found a new 3 spoke wheel.
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #18 on: June 11, 2020, 04:52:29 pm »
    Would it be stronger to use the big acorn nuts that came with the lugnuts or should I track down some mag style lugnuts with a shank to engage the wheel?
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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #19 on: June 11, 2020, 09:23:01 pm »
    the lug nuts you use MUST match the wheels you use , so its a matter of which style your wheel is designed to work with , its not just a choice .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #20 on: June 17, 2020, 10:51:14 am »
    the lug nuts you use MUST match the wheels you use , so its a matter of which style your wheel is designed to work with , its not just a choice .

    No in terms of all out strength would it be better to use the acorn nuts as the wheel was designed or have a lug holes machined out to use a shank style mag lug nut? The actual failure came from the welded rear diff and extended street driving. The tires weren't the exact same size so they started rocking back and forth relative to each other on the hub. The tires were close to same size, same brand, and roughly same wear, but a slight difference in psi is all it took to make the od slightly different. The wheel that failed started rotating on the hub by smaller and smaller increments until the wheel was rocking back and worth by 1/8" or so ( 1/2" stud in a hole big enough for 9/16 studs to pass easily through). Eventually, the studs couldn't take it anymore and sheared off instantly. There is more contact area between the wheel and shank than there is with just an acorn.
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    1987 Dodge Dakota 3.9 V6

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    Offline dodge82273

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #21 on: June 17, 2020, 11:04:34 am »
     knowingly abuse anything and it will fail , but you knew that , r/r the axle to 8 lugs . Cheaper than machine work to make 1 off custom wheels , and stronger .
    78 to 93 parts trucks
    91 w250 318 518 44/60 single 9 foot driveway plow locked
    87w150 44/corp727 kandy w/ ghost bats/summer
    86-D/W100 44/corp/318mag/carb/4500/aka shit box/winter
    93w150short/44/corp/360/le/mag "caddie"
    93w250LB51844/60posi 318"New Truck"
    93w350 6 tire CC 60 c/a flat bed dump

    Offline u2slow

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #22 on: June 17, 2020, 11:46:40 am »
    No in terms of all out strength would it be better to use the acorn nuts as the wheel was designed or have a lug holes machined out to use a shank style mag lug nut?

    IMO, the taper seat is a more secure interface than a clamped cylindrical hole. They will begin to egg-out from the first time you catch the nuts loose, and there's no getting that back. I have DRW wheels and FF axle shafts that are junk from that problem. In your case there is also merit to running a wheel that fits snugly on the hub pilot. It reduces the stress on the studs in the early stages of the lugnuts loosening. There's also the matter of re-torqing aluminum wheels. I typically keep a torque wrench in my passenger seat until i've done enough re-torques that none of them budge. Only then does it go back in my toolbox.

    I like the 8-lug axle idea. (i.e. Dana 60 or bigger) The 9-1/4" is not awesome in the first place, and less than so being welded. (Elwenil will likely put in his 2 cents. ;) )  Semi-float axles will suffer from hammering down logging roads. A fullfloat design takes all that load off the axle shaft, places it directly on the housing, and distributes it over twice the bearings.
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    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #23 on: June 18, 2020, 08:00:18 am »
    I'm using factory wheels so its reasonably tight around the center bore. At least tighter than it would be with aftermarket wheels with a generic wheel opening.
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    1987 Dodge Dakota 3.9 V6

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    Governments control people. Who CONTROLS the GOVERNMENTS of the people?

    Offline RedneckInTraining

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    Re: Multiple questions 96 dodge ram
    « Reply #24 on: July 1, 2020, 02:58:50 pm »
    So after doing some test fitting I will need to drill the wheel seats roughly 1/8" so that the new 9/16 lug nuts have full engagement which would make the rear wheels so they are only able to be mounted to the rear wheels. To prevent future headaches, I'm wondering if I could drill all 4 wheel seats down that 1/8" and then use 1/8" thick aluminum washers on the front wheels so the 1/2" lugnuts can seat properly, at least until I can find a 9/16 stud that will work with the front hubs?
    1994 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD
    1987 Dodge Dakota 3.9 V6

                          RON PAUL- 2012
    Governments control people. Who CONTROLS the GOVERNMENTS of the people?

     

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