Author Topic: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?  (Read 2846 times)

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Offline blueduster

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Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
« on: May 9, 2014, 12:33:53 pm »
So let me ask you guys, especially gals or guys with wives who carry, what is the opinion of the best CCW gun for a woman? Sarah has some experience but I will be taking her to the range a bit before I hire someone to train her professionally to get the CCW. The recent turn of events in San Diego County and the 9th Court has opened the door for regular people finally. Two people in our circle have already gotten theirs.

I'm a diehard M1911 .45 guy. The only other pistols I have ever owned are a couple old  Colts, a Detective spec and a Python. Both were my grandfather's. I gave them to my younger brother a few years ago. I hate Glocks so they are out of the question. Anything else is cool. Sarah likes the idea of a semi-auto and we'll find out how well she handles them soon at a range along with a couple revolvers. Smith MPs, Springfield XDs and of course some 1911s. Maybe Ruger too. Ruger and Smith revolvers. Those are all guns I have handled. It's the smaller guns that I have absolutely no experience with. There are a bunch of medium and small frame CCW targeted guns and would like some experienced input please. 9mm and .40 cal are my inclination or a .38sp+ in a .357 frame. Maybe a .45 if she turns out to handle the autos well. Anyway, input would be appreciated.
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #1 on: May 9, 2014, 12:44:10 pm »
    well, both my wife and I carry the PX4 Storm Type C, .40 cal.  Good weight, good size, holds a bunch.  What we really like is the hammer, and trigger pull.  The hammer is 'buried', which makes it damned difficult to accidentally 'catch' on anything, and they have a 'long' pull every time - the hammer is single-action every time.  IOW, you have to really want to pull that trigger before the adrenalin causes you to accidentally kill someone.  Plus, there is no safety - no button to try to find in the heat of the moment.  The Type-C is specifically made for concealed carry, and for the best performance during the heat of a gun fight....which I wager none of us have any real experience in....but I bet it's not the time to try to find the safety nor accidentally bump a hair trigger and kill the wrong person {2cents}

    In other words...both she and I think the Type-C is one of the safest weapons to have.

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-beretta-px4-storm-type-c-gunfight-safety-at-its-best/

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    « Last Edit: May 9, 2014, 12:49:42 pm by Mad Max »
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    Offline blueduster

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #2 on: May 9, 2014, 12:50:31 pm »
    Hmmm, that looks interesting. the constant pull is cool. I hate heavy DAs with a sudden break.
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    Offline Mike Barf

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #3 on: May 9, 2014, 01:32:50 pm »
    mind you some firearms may not be available in cali due to the "laws to make the state safer"
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #4 on: May 9, 2014, 01:33:58 pm »
    it is very cool.  There are many who feel the 'hair trigger' etc is the only way to go....but that's not how we think.  We don't want to kill anyone or any thing...but if that day ever comes we both want to have as much warning time as possible, and that includes the decision time necessary to pull the trigger.   
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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #5 on: May 9, 2014, 07:44:08 pm »
    If she uses a purse, I'd recommend a revolver, with a concealed hammer, .38 with a good name-brand +p "defense" round (JHP) like a Speer Gold Dot or equivalent.  Forget using a .357 frame. For concealed carry that will only add unnecessary bulk and weight. You can also get her a standard size .357 for additional practice (using .38s).
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    Offline GUT

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #6 on: May 9, 2014, 11:53:23 pm »
    How much has she shot a handgun? If not much you may want to consider a smaller caliber gun as her first. I know alot of women who are put off by larger caliber, and are afraid from there on out. Think .380, or .327 federal. Also everyone is different, so if possible have her try several.
    If you are a 1911 fan, they make many small 1911 style guns such as Springfields EMP.
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    Offline fal308

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 04:01:07 am »
    Take her someplace (or ideally several places) to handle as many firearms as possible. Everyone's hands are different and if it doesn't fit well and she can't comfortably hold it, chances are she won't shoot it well. If there aren't any places near you that will let you handle firearms, wait until you head out to RamJam and hit stores along the way. Would make for an interesting diversion. I quite often stopped at gunshops when I used to travel. Once she finds something that fits, then try shooting it. I know some of the bigger retailers (Bass Pro etc) sometimes have a shooting tunnel that you can test fire in or quite a few mom 'n pop gunshops are also ranges and may let you shoot (more will let you shoot a used firearm as opposed to a new firearm).
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    Offline Mike337

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 06:18:47 am »
    fal308 is right. The right weapon for your wife is the one that fits her hand comfortably, allows her finger to work a de-cocking lever, magazine release, safety or what ever features are on the pistol. To put it as cleanly as I can, she needs to go to a well stocked gun store and "finger fornicate" all of them till she finds the one that mates to her hand. I own lots of weapons, but my hand is in love with my two Ruger New Model Blackhawks  Single-Action Revolvers, I have the .357 and .45 Colt.

    Caliber of the weapon is also important. If she can't hold on to the gun after she fires it what's the point. There is a video on you tube of a chick shooting a Desert Eagle .50 cal., the recoil from it sends it flying back and busts her right in the face, game over.

    One shot, one kill is great for a USMC sniper, but since we are talking real world, the odds that a terrified, adrenaline charged person will stop the threat with the first shot are low. If you are lucky enough to hit, many times one is not enough and you will need multiple shots to stop the threat. (That's why Police Officers fire in 2 and 3 round bursts in training)

    A .32 is a time tested female weapon, small, light weight and easy to conceal, you can carry it in a purse or on a thigh in a slinky dress. Remember the biggest reasons people stop carrying are weight and bulk. Most girls wear a lot less and tighter clothing than we do. Depending on her hand size she may be able to get a little more. .38 +p+ rounds have a bite, after my wife shoots a round from my .38 she has to re-establish her grip, that's not what you want in a fight. Eight well placed .32 rounds will have a better effect than one .38 round and a lost sight picture.

    Yes, bigger is better, but you must be able to control the recoil and stay on target. Train in 2 and 3 round bursts and at close distance. (most police shootings are with in 6 feet or less) We train 2 rounds in 3 seconds from the holster at 5 feet. Make her draw from what ever way she will carry. If it's a purse with a built in middle holster then that what she takes on the line. It takes 2000 times of doing something to create a muscle memory, practice with the gun dry till she gets it down. It does her no good if she cant get it out of the holster when she needs it. You also want to carry it in the same spot if you can, you shouldn't have to think about where you put it with the outfit you have on today.

    So, my 2 cents: whatever loves her hand and her hand loves back, I don't care what brand it is, but do make sure it is reputable, don't try to influence her at all, what you like is irrelevant, it is all about her.  Her hand to love the feel, her body to conceal it, her ability to use and control it. Caliber is not important, muzzle control with good shot placement is everything and practice, practice, practice.

    Mike


    Offline blueduster

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 11:22:53 pm »
    She's fired a .40 and a 9mm a few times. The multiple gun rental is exactly what I intend. A caliber less than 9mm is of no use for her.  One of the main reasons for this is an abusive ex who now is 6'2"/400 lbs. He has put on 150lbs in the last 5 years. He's out of state now but I don't trust him. He will never try something with me around but I can't be around every second. She will need to know how to put multiple rounds into a target. I can teach her a lot but I will hire an instructor too. I know what she chooses has to fit her right, that's why I've asked for other ideas besides what I already mentioned. Believe me, she will have no issue turning down one that isn't comfortable.
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    Offline SeahawkDodge

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 01:21:52 pm »
    How is she going to carry it? 
    If she uses a purse, she absolutely needs to get a purse designed for concealed carry.  Having a handgun in the same pocket as her lipstick and change, is a recipe for disaster.

    If she is going to use a holster, make sure it is used with a high quality concealed carry belt, and a quality concealment holster.  It needs to be comfortable, first and foremost.

    As far as the pistol is concerned, there are a lot of pistols out there that would fit the requirements.  As FAL and Mike have mentioned, a pistol that fits her is key.  I like the DA style of pistols for concealed carry, because of the second strike ability. If you have a primer that doesn't go off, you can pull the trigger again.  Same with a revolver.  This is why I don't like Glocks or the M&P for concealed carry.

    I carry a Sig P250 in 9mm, or a Sig P229 in .40.  But those are my personal preferences.
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    Offline 74rcnut

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 04:23:46 pm »
    My wife goes to gun shows with me to look for leather purses that allow for concealed carry.The last one she bought allowed a pistol to be stored in it and fired thru it .I am with Toxic Doc.My wife has a hard time racking the slide on most semi's.You can always carry the revolver with the hammer on the empty chamber.On a double action,the first time the trigger is pulled,it is about double the pull.You may also consider a high powered taser.They will disable 95 % of people,I'm not sure about 400 lbs. thou Just my 2 cents
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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 07:03:28 pm »
    ...You can always carry the revolver with the hammer on the empty chamber.On a double action,the first time the trigger is pulled,it is about double the pull.You may also consider a high powered taser.They will disable 95 % of people,I'm not sure about 400 lbs. thou Just my 2 cents

    you can carry a full cylinder if there's a transfer safety bar or hammer block.  And fyi, a taser will drop big ones just as good (they fall harder too ;) ) .  the problem is what do you do when they get back up?  :o
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    Offline blueduster

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 11:42:32 pm »
    Yeah, a taser isn't going to cut it. I was dumb enough to volunteer at a gun show a few years ago. It dropped me to a knee and  one hand but within 10 seconds I was able to stand. That's not good enough. They say it's about 80% effective on the population as a whole.

    We have a couple good range/stores here that have instructors you can hire as well as rent guns for the range. I held a ccw in San Diego(connected boss) in the 90s and in Vegas up until my move back here. I can teach my wife most of what she needs but I'm not the best teacher. So hiring someone after I have her comfortable makes sense. As for holster vs purse, we will explore that after she picks a couple different gun options. A purse is likely if they have something like her Coach bags. lol
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    Offline SeahawkDodge

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #14 on: May 14, 2014, 11:17:42 am »
    Yeah, a taser isn't going to cut it. I was dumb enough to volunteer at a gun show a few years ago. It dropped me to a knee and  one hand but within 10 seconds I was able to stand. That's not good enough. They say it's about 80% effective on the population as a whole.

    We have a couple good range/stores here that have instructors you can hire as well as rent guns for the range. I held a ccw in San Diego(connected boss) in the 90s and in Vegas up until my move back here. I can teach my wife most of what she needs but I'm not the best teacher. So hiring someone after I have her comfortable makes sense. As for holster vs purse, we will explore that after she picks a couple different gun options. A purse is likely if they have something like her Coach bags. lol

    Both purses and holsters have their positives and negatives.  A purse makes it easier to conceal the weapon and is more comfortable.  But she could also become separated from the gun.  Several states require that the pistol has to remain on the CCW permit holder, and do not allow purses, sachels or bags to be used with a firearm.  Make sure you find out whether California law makes that distinction.

    You can buy pocket holsters for the smaller pistols, like the P3AT, Ruger LC9 and such.  But I very much dislike having a pistol in a pocket, even with the holster.  It is great in shorts, but you have to keep change, keys and stuff out of that pocket.  Having a quarter or key getting wedged into the trigger area doesn't sound like a good time.

    As far as holsters go, I have a Crossbreed for one of my pistols and a MTAC for the other.  Both are fairly comfortable, but I also use a Crossbreed carry belt.  I have found that carrying the 229 is much more of a pain in the butt most of the time, so I usually carry the P250.  And if it is hot outside, carrying either in a holster...well, I am sure you know what I am talking about.

    Good luck with the shopping, I am sure you two will find a good solution.
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    Offline Skwerly

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 01:14:30 pm »
    Take her someplace (or ideally several places) to handle as many firearms as possible. Everyone's hands are different and if it doesn't fit well and she can't comfortably hold it, chances are she won't shoot it well. If there aren't any places near you that will let you handle firearms, wait until you head out to RamJam and hit stores along the way. Would make for an interesting diversion. I quite often stopped at gunshops when I used to travel. Once she finds something that fits, then try shooting it. I know some of the bigger retailers (Bass Pro etc) sometimes have a shooting tunnel that you can test fire in or quite a few mom 'n pop gunshops are also ranges and may let you shoot (more will let you shoot a used firearm as opposed to a new firearm).

    Exactly what I was going to say. When we went to the store to get the woman a gun, they tried all sorts of ways to get her into something small and plastic, all of which she hated.

    So she tells the guy, “Lemme see that one,” and pointed to a Ruger .357 wheel gun.

    Good girl, I think, and smile——this was going to be good.

    The second she got that naughty sucker in her hands, she was in love. course, it’s heavy as hell, so not a great carry pistol, but it’s her favorite by far out of all the guns she’s shot which, since she’s with me, is quite a darn few.  :D

    The dude behind the counter was like all righty then, and we bought the gun then and there.

    I’m also a die hard 1911 guy, as I think it’s the coolest and most effective pistol there is, hands down. I’ve a Kimber and a Colt which belonged to my father, and I love 'em to death.
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    Offline GUT

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #16 on: May 14, 2014, 11:48:24 pm »
    A carry purse is something to be cautious with. CA does not prohibit it, but says the gun must be in the CCW holders " possession ".  Holsters and how and where to carry on the body is different for everyone, much like  the choice of gun. Be ready to purchase several holsters. I personally like to be able to draw while seated.
    My wifes new favorite holster is the flashbang holster. Watch the youtube videos on that one.
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    Offline Mad Max

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 08:28:06 am »
    I’m also a die hard 1911 guy, as I think it’s the coolest and most effective pistol there is, hands down.

    I agree, and I'm likely going to 'rebuild' my 1911 and carry it sometimes.  It needs a new barrel and needs to be re-parkerized, etc etc.
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    Offline chau8238

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 08:39:33 am »
    My mom has a Taurus .357 hammerless.  My dad has a Ruger .357 security six and a Ruger LCR (hammerless .357).   I have a Dan Wesson .357, but that's an older gun with a big frame, so not really good for smaller people to conceal carry, not too bad for me though. 
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    Offline blueduster

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 08:44:20 am »
    It gets to be just like our trucks, the toys start piling up.  :D  I got my first 1911 from the Navy surplus as they started phasing in the M9. They were the last, kicking and screaming. Paid $50 for it and $400 with the Marines gunsmith. Awesome gun. My other is a Springfield loaded.
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    Offline PrimerGrey

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #20 on: July 24, 2014, 02:20:09 pm »
    I carry a Taurus 709, in 9mm. Very light, very slim. It's a striker fired weapon which means there is no exposed hammer (no de-cocking lever which does away with the extra training and the need to remember to de-cock after an extremely stressful event), same trigger pull from first shot to last, and a second strike capability. You just keeping pulling the trigger until it goes boom. You can get the same frame in 40 cal. but the corresponding recoil in a small frame makes for the possibility of an inaccurate second shot. It comes with Novak three dot sights. Conceals very well without printing even while wearing shorts and a tee shirt. Breaksdown easily for cleaning. And it's affordable.

    The only drawbacks I've found are the slim frame makes drawing the slide back kinda difficult and it only comes with one mag. Replacement mags are damned hard to find and expensive when available.

    But like everyone else has said, doesn't matter what you carry as long as you can shoot it well.

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    Offline Skwerly

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 11:33:17 am »
    I agree, and I'm likely going to 'rebuild' my 1911 and carry it sometimes.  It needs a new barrel and needs to be re-parkerized, etc etc.

    What type do you have, bud?
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    Offline GUT

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #23 on: October 2, 2014, 11:31:55 pm »
    Any updates? What has she shot, and /or what did she get?
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    Offline blueduster

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    Re: Experienced CCW gun input for a woman?
    « Reply #24 on: October 3, 2014, 12:10:10 am »
    Done some shooting but no purchase yet. It's still going to happen , money has been going elsewhere lately. Leaning towards a LadySmith .38. Her small hands only work with a few semiautos.
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