Author Topic: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off  (Read 5603 times)

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Offline Unclebull

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*** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
« on: February 8, 2014, 09:27:38 pm »
I am using a 2002 E Machine with XP that was trailing edge when I bought it but it works ok for surfing, photo storage and e-mail.  A couple of years ago I replaced the RAM with 2g memory.

Recently it started to shut off with no warning.

I did a Malwarebytes long scan, took over 5 hours but it stayed on for the entire time, found a few PUP files and deleted them.

Logged onto Facebook and about 30 minutes later it shut off. Restarted it and kept only one window open and it shut off after a few minutes.

It has stayed on for this message though, maybe it hates FB!

I blew the dust out, not too much, I cleaned it not too long ago.  Both fans are running.

I'm thinking it might be the hard drive because it worked during the scan but shut off when under load.

I can get a new hard drive pretty cheap but then I need a new OS and will have to copy all the stuff over.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Bill


« Last Edit: June 6, 2014, 10:22:51 am by Unclebull »
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    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #1 on: February 8, 2014, 10:14:08 pm »
    First thought is dying power supply.
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    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #2 on: February 8, 2014, 10:17:02 pm »
    My first thought would be overheating.  Check and make sure the heatsink is still secure and dust free.
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #3 on: February 8, 2014, 10:26:29 pm »
    My first thought would be overheating.  Check and make sure the heatsink is still secure and dust free.

    I would've thought that too but he says the fans are working and everything is blown out. Let's see how it goes.
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    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #4 on: February 8, 2014, 11:22:34 pm »
    I considered over heating also, but one side is off, dust has been blown out and the fans are running.

    It stayed on for RCC as I typed the first post, it shut off for FB and later for another forum.

    I'm using a tablet right now.

    Thanks for your responses.


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    Offline Elwenil

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #5 on: February 9, 2014, 12:33:06 am »
    The fans can still work and the processor will still overheat if one of the clips on the heatsink has let go and the heatsink loses contact with the processor.  Pretty common problem with the later Pentium processors.  I've had to replace the plastic base twice on this old PC.
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    Offline maachine

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #6 on: February 9, 2014, 12:41:25 am »
    i am going with over heating. there is a paste in between processors and video cards and their heatsinks. that paste goes bad over time. especially if its been over heated a few times. i've had 2 laptops die this way. also, the solder used on some mother boards (pentiums especially) start to crack over time and lose the connection to the mother board. this is also common on old xbox 360's. i say you download a program that shows the heat of the CPU's and GPU's. i use a program called realtempGT. i am unsure if it can be used with xp or not.
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    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #7 on: February 9, 2014, 01:21:32 pm »

    Thanks guys, I'll find something that measures the temperature.

    I'm wondering why it seems like I can stay on RCC all day without a problem then hit a high graphics forum like FB and it shuts down.

    Over heating the cpu by overworking the cpu?

    Hope the wife gets a job soon so I can upgrade my computer!!



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    Offline maachine

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #8 on: February 9, 2014, 01:38:35 pm »
    could be the GPU (graphics processor unit) does the screen flicker or do you get any weird coloring or lines when it shuts down?
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #9 on: February 9, 2014, 06:13:54 pm »
    If the heatsink has come loose, you won't be able to measure the temp in the case.  It's the processor that's overheating and it can happen in a matter of seconds or longer depending on the demand on it.  It's the processor that overheats and it will shut down the computer immediately to prevent damage.  Just reach in and try and wiggle the heatsink and fan assembly on the processor, if it moves, it will have to be fixed, if not, the problem is elsewhere.
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    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 09:58:28 pm »
    could be the GPU (graphics processor unit) does the screen flicker or do you get any weird coloring or lines when it shuts down?

    No nothing, the processor starts making noise as the demand increases and then just shuts off.

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    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 10:00:01 pm »
    If the heatsink has come loose, you won't be able to measure the temp in the case.  It's the processor that's overheating and it can happen in a matter of seconds or longer depending on the demand on it.  It's the processor that overheats and it will shut down the computer immediately to prevent damage.  Just reach in and try and wiggle the heatsink and fan assembly on the processor, if it moves, it will have to be fixed, if not, the problem is elsewhere.

    Those are the symptoms.

    I'll try this and I'll let you know.

    Thanks

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    Offline maachine

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #12 on: February 10, 2014, 10:16:20 pm »
    Ya probably not your gpu then

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 10:20:55 pm »

    Yep.
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    Offline crazzywolfie

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 04:15:19 pm »
    how do the capacitors look. sounds like some might be failing. as far as the hard drive/operating system goes there software that you can use to copy the operating system and all your files to the new hard drive. i know it was called Ghost and nortons made it. the copy i use to use was on 3 1/2" floppy. if your computer is using a SATA drive i think you have to change some settings but i don't remember the exact details around it.
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 07:18:14 pm »

    Thanks, I think I've narrowed it down to either the CPU thingy or the power supply.

    I'm about ready to start swapping parts with the wife's spare computer to see what fails.

    Need to clean up the memory also, the C drive is about filled, not sure how that happened.


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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 12:43:27 pm »
    Need to clean up the memory also, the C drive is about filled, not sure how that happened.

     Too much porn.
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    Offline maachine

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    Re: Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #17 on: February 20, 2014, 01:36:50 pm »
    Need to clean up the memory also, the C drive is about filled, not sure how that happened.


    Ya that will cause problems. Try deleting a bunch of stuff you don't need and see if that helps. If it starts working, I'd defrag.
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    Offline crazzywolfie

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #18 on: February 20, 2014, 01:51:41 pm »
    i don't think a full c drive would cause a computer to shut off but it would cause it to run slower and work harder. with a computer that is about nearly 12 years old i don't think the hard drive in it would be that big.
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    Offline maachine

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #19 on: February 20, 2014, 02:14:45 pm »
    I had a friend that had a similar problem problem. He cleaned up some memory and it was fixed. Its worth a shot anyway.

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 09:53:44 pm »
    Too much porn.

    Nah, that's what the tablet is for.

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    Re: Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 09:54:33 pm »
    Ya that will cause problems. Try deleting a bunch of stuff you don't need and see if that helps. If it starts working, I'd defrag.
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    Started to, might get an external hard drive for some of the stuff, thanks.

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 09:55:44 pm »
    i don't think a full c drive would cause a computer to shut off but it would cause it to run slower and work harder. with a computer that is about nearly 12 years old i don't think the hard drive in it would be that big.

    This does make sense.

    It is an 80g memory.
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 09:56:12 pm »
    I had a friend that had a similar problem problem. He cleaned up some memory and it was fixed. Its worth a shot anyway.

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    It is, thanks.

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    Offline crazzywolfie

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 10:17:26 pm »
    a 80GB hard drive is tiny by todays standards. my laptop is about 4-5 years old and has a 500GB hard drive.  a lot of newer computers have about a 320GB or larger hard drive.

    have you done a disk cleanup? if can help you clean up some of the garbage file that windows creates.
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #25 on: February 24, 2014, 07:40:52 pm »
    a 80GB hard drive is tiny by todays standards. my laptop is about 4-5 years old and has a 500GB hard drive.  a lot of newer computers have about a 320GB or larger hard drive.

    have you done a disk cleanup? if can help you clean up some of the garbage file that windows creates.

    Yep, done the disk cleanup, ran two different types of malware, can't defrag until I have some room for it to work  with.

    Saw a laptop with a Terabyte of memory.

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #26 on: April 10, 2014, 01:50:56 am »
    Im just throwing this out there, Have you downloaded any updates lately. Windows ( I dont think they stil produce XP updates) or any of your drivers. There could be some corruption somewhere. Maybe you have a new program installed or device connected to the computer? Can you reset your computer to a save point in the past when it was working again? its usually cheap to just replace the part when you have a desktop, the powersupply does wear out over time and could use replacing? I dont imagine you would need more than a 250 watt PSU which you could pick up on newegg for 20-40$. But i dont think it would just randomly cut off with the PSU, give it a good look over and make sure no metal is bent and touching where it doesn't look it should.

    Sorry for the late post. Hope this helps some if you still have the problem.

    Offline ToxicDoc

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #27 on: April 10, 2014, 01:17:13 pm »
    Ya, it's been 2 months. Where's the update?
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #28 on: April 11, 2014, 02:16:53 am »
    His computer isn't working remember?

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #29 on: April 11, 2014, 09:34:02 am »
    His computer isn't working remember?

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    lol. Shouldn't it be fixed already? ;)
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #30 on: April 11, 2014, 10:17:35 am »


    Thanks  for the inputs, I appreciate them.

    Still not fixed. I'm still not working so I hate to spend money on old things.

    I'm about convinced the processor doesn't have enough space to process data and all those electrons bouncing off each other heat it up and shuts it down.

    Eh?

    Should transfer the photo file to a moveable device and see what happens.

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #31 on: April 11, 2014, 11:13:37 am »

     the processor doesn't have enough space to process data and all those electrons bouncing off each other heat it up and shuts it down.


    That would make you one EXTREMELY unlucky guy. If it still cuts on at all I would strongly recommend the system restore point and see where you end up after that

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #32 on: April 11, 2014, 11:26:09 am »

    Not sure I have a system restore point, does XP have them?

    I have done a system restore but only on newer machines.

    Starting to lobby for a new computer, maybe an all-in-one with a big screen.

    I do like my XP though.

     
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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #33 on: April 11, 2014, 11:32:26 am »

    Thanks  for the inputs, I appreciate them.

    Still not fixed. I'm still not working so I hate to spend money on old things.

    I'm about convinced the processor doesn't have enough space to process data and all those electrons bouncing off each other heat it up and shuts it down.



    that's not how processors work, and a full hard drive isnt why it's shutting down.  processor have no permanent storage.  a full hard drive can cause your machine to run terribly slow, but wont cause it to shut down unless it is going bad.

    you either have a overheating processor, bad/failing power supply, a failing motherboard/BIOS, or some nastyware software. 

    have you felt of the heatsink on top of the processor after it has been running for a while?  is it hot?

    does your bios have a temp reading in it?  many do. 

    turn the computer off

    press the power button, and immediately start pressing the "F8" key until you get a menu.

    select safe mode with networking.

    see if it shuts down.  if it does, you almost 100% have a hardware problem.  if it doesnt, then something is misconfigured with your software.

    safe mode does not load any of the drivers, programs, etc...that are not necessary.  many viruses and malware are also dormant in safe mode, so if the software is causing the problem this should help prove that.

    if you want you can do a voltage test on the power supply

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac7YMUcMjbw

    it will only test voltage - it wont test the amperage.  if the voltages vary much from +-12V, +-5V, and +-3.3V, then you have a bad power supply. 

    as someone else as said, check the motherboard, video card, and anything else with capacitors for ones that are leaking/failing

    you can try to remove all but one of your memory modules and see if the behavior changes.  if not, swap it out for another one.  windows vista and 7 have built-in memory testing tools you can try first

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/diagnosing-memory-problems-on-your-computer

    you can also check your bios and turn off all power management features.  i've seen buggy bioses cause this (a windows update can cause a conflict with a bug in the APM/ACPI and shut machines down at random.  we had a batch of machines in one of our labs at the university i teach (i teach the A+ pc repair stuff, among other things) at that rebooted at random after a service pack was installed until the vendor released a bios update). 

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #34 on: April 11, 2014, 12:17:21 pm »
    that's not how processors work, and a full hard drive isnt why it's shutting down.  processor have no permanent storage.  a full hard drive can cause your machine to run terribly slow, but wont cause it to shut down unless it is going bad.

    you either have a overheating processor, bad/failing power supply, a failing motherboard/BIOS, or some nastyware software. 

    have you felt of the heatsink on top of the processor after it has been running for a while?  is it hot?

    does your bios have a temp reading in it?  many do. 

    turn the computer off

    press the power button, and immediately start pressing the "F8" key until you get a menu.

    select safe mode with networking.

    see if it shuts down.  if it does, you almost 100% have a hardware problem.  if it doesnt, then something is misconfigured with your software.

    safe mode does not load any of the drivers, programs, etc...that are not necessary.  many viruses and malware are also dormant in safe mode, so if the software is causing the problem this should help prove that.

    if you want you can do a voltage test on the power supply

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac7YMUcMjbw

    it will only test voltage - it wont test the amperage.  if the voltages vary much from +-12V, +-5V, and +-3.3V, then you have a bad power supply. 

    as someone else as said, check the motherboard, video card, and anything else with capacitors for ones that are leaking/failing

    you can try to remove all but one of your memory modules and see if the behavior changes.  if not, swap it out for another one.  windows vista and 7 have built-in memory testing tools you can try first

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/diagnosing-memory-problems-on-your-computer

    you can also check your bios and turn off all power management features.  i've seen buggy bioses cause this (a windows update can cause a conflict with a bug in the APM/ACPI and shut machines down at random.  we had a batch of machines in one of our labs at the university i teach (i teach the A+ pc repair stuff, among other things) at that rebooted at random after a service pack was installed until the vendor released a bios update).


    What he said...That was pretty in depth..Dont believe you can get a more detailed response. I would certainly start with the safemode,to see if it is a software issue or not first(Being thats the cheapest fix)  and just start crossing problems off your list as you do the different test he mentioned.

    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 09:21:36 pm »

    Thank you both, I'm reluctant to do stuff to the computer without a step-by-step and as he said, this appears to be pretty comprehensive.

    I will try this and let you know.

    Thanks,

    Bill
    1986 Dodge Ramcharger with 106000 plus miles.
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    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #36 on: June 6, 2014, 10:25:54 am »

    I got tired of it shutting off so I bought a new HP.

    8g ram, 1T hard drive under $500.00

    Should last a while

    And things now load quickly and I can have more than 2 windows and tabs open at a time.

    Should have done this much earlier.

    Thank you all for you advise, I appreciate your help.

    Bill


    1986 Dodge Ramcharger with 106000 plus miles.
    Partially primed and all the trim and bumpers are in the back.

    Offline sheriff

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    Re: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #37 on: June 6, 2014, 11:05:38 am »
    just some back info. back a few years i was looking to rpl my desktop. looked at and researched several makes. one thing that stood out re emachines pc was that the ps was barely adequate as built. the ps would not support much or any system upgrades. so i passed on emachine. ==sheriff==
    1967 r/t -- owned since new -- completely stock --58k "asleep-not dead"
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    Offline Skwerly

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    Re: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #38 on: June 6, 2014, 11:47:57 am »
    It's amazing how cheap stuff is today, right?  Nice score.
    1978 pop-top SE, 440, junkyard built.  :D

    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #39 on: June 6, 2014, 06:19:33 pm »
    just some back info. back a few years i was looking to rpl my desktop. looked at and researched several makes. one thing that stood out re emachines pc was that the ps was barely adequate as built. the ps would not support much or any system upgrades. so i passed on emachine. ==sheriff==

    Yep, I agree, it was adequate for what I wanted it for; e-mail, surfing and light duty MSOffice work.
    I did upgrade the memory to 2g and that was it, oh yes, the wireless went out and I needed to add an external wireless thingie.

    1986 Dodge Ramcharger with 106000 plus miles.
    Partially primed and all the trim and bumpers are in the back.

    Offline Unclebull

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    Re: *** Fixed, kind of---Computer keeps shutting off
    « Reply #40 on: June 6, 2014, 06:22:59 pm »
    It's amazing how cheap stuff is today, right?  Nice score.

    Absolutely!  The first computer my wife bought, back in the early 80's in Okinawa, a TRS80 followed by an HP something, both cost in the thousands!

    I played games, the wife used it for her Master's Degree.

    1986 Dodge Ramcharger with 106000 plus miles.
    Partially primed and all the trim and bumpers are in the back.

     

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