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Offline warlock4x4

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venting a dana 60 rear
« on: January 4, 2009, 06:15:12 PM »
Want to get the vent up off the axle on my rear D60.  Any Ideas?  One problem is the vent is the bolt for the brake block. 
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline Elwenil

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #1 on: January 4, 2009, 06:50:32 PM »
Get it up how?  Do you mean move the vent to another location or just routing the vent up higher?  It's pretty easy to use a longer hose to put the vent up higher on the frame.  I used to route the vent on my old Ramcharger up inside the C pillar above the tail lamp.  As far as moving it, you can drill and tap a new hole somewhere but you will either have to use a bolt in place of the old vent nipple or re-route the brake lines.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #2 on: January 5, 2009, 05:13:19 AM »
Chris, I would just drill & tap for a NPT AN fitting into the top of the housing like the on the front of mine. I'll be doing the same on my rear when I get to that point. The other end of the hose you can put were ever you want. You would need a breather cap on it so no dirt/bees can get into it. The old mount I think is a 7/16 fine thread.
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Offline Gerhart

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #3 on: January 5, 2009, 02:24:39 PM »
 {agree}
'77 W200 (former M880), 318, TF 727, NP 203, D44FBJ(F), D60(R), WIP: complete restoration
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Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #4 on: January 5, 2009, 06:34:25 PM »
Well this was kind of an after thought.  The axle is all together.  I think I can get a nipple and a nut to go in the existing hole which will hold the brake block and then go to the barbed hose fitting after that.  You know sometimes just typing the question and responces to answers help clear the thought process for a possible soloution. 

Thanks for the help so far and keep um coming.

Chris
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #5 on: January 5, 2009, 07:08:52 PM »
Can't you also use a front bolt/nipple on the rear mounting block.
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Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #6 on: January 6, 2009, 05:32:40 AM »
like the one that is or there now that the nipple part is very short?
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #7 on: January 6, 2009, 06:15:31 AM »
That's the part I was thinking about. It is a bolt that held the brass block on to the axle tube with a nipple coming out of the top.
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Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #8 on: January 6, 2009, 07:07:08 PM »
I need to pull the bolt/vent out and see what size the threads are.  Since the one in the D44HD is being replaced with a nipple I had then it should be NPT like 1/8 but we will see.  You know how crazy NPT sizes are compared to bolt sizes.
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #9 on: January 6, 2009, 07:32:08 PM »
NPT threads are standard. It goes like 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 3/8",  1/2" etc. Remember these are pipe sizes not actual measurements. The D60 front is 7/16" fine threads.
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1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
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Offline Gerhart

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #10 on: January 7, 2009, 06:29:11 AM »
Bolt size concerns outside diameter. NPT size does NOT concern outside diameter, but minmal inside diameter. This means that every 1/8" npt pipe you get, has a minimal inside diameter of 1/8", regardless of wall thickness. But every pipe size does have a standard outside diameter, also regardless of wall thickness.
This may sound a bit strange, but from the engineer's point of view it makes sense. When you have to design a system, it's more convenient to choose from the specification that really matters, instead of having to calculate what you really need.

See http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/npt-national-pipe-taper-threads-d_750.html for a listing of actual diameters.
'77 W200 (former M880), 318, TF 727, NP 203, D44FBJ(F), D60(R), WIP: complete restoration
http://ramchargercentral.com/projects/lowlands-dodge/

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #11 on: January 7, 2009, 07:05:09 AM »
Good explanation & link!! I didn't feel like going that deep into it.  What I should have said is all "example size" 1/4" NPT threads are the same. Example when you drill & tap for a 1/4" NPT it is allways taped to a "go gage" Depth. That's "usually" 7 threads from the top of the tap as a close reference. In the out side world there it the British, metrick and our NPT.
1988 RC.the gold one   pics
1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
440 pics

Offline Gerhart

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #12 on: January 7, 2009, 01:56:53 PM »
Good explanation & link!! I didn't feel like going that deep into it. 

I've had my share of thread-mishaps  ;D  so I thought I'd explain a bit.
As mentioned, there are about three gazilion thread types, all of them almost the same as any other one, but not exactly. So mixing them = trouble.
A few of the types: SAE, metric, BSP, BSPT, NP, NPT, UNC, UNF, Union, Witworth, PS, G, RP, RPT
Some are used for bolts only, some for pipes only, others for both. So....enjoy  ;D
Just remember to never mix between types; only use a NPT adapter in a NPT threaded hole.

Jim, your explanation was more than sufficient, nothing wrong with that.
Just wanted to share my information as gathered over the past few years.
'77 W200 (former M880), 318, TF 727, NP 203, D44FBJ(F), D60(R), WIP: complete restoration
http://ramchargercentral.com/projects/lowlands-dodge/

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #13 on: January 7, 2009, 02:51:10 PM »
 {cool} {cool} {cool}
1988 RC.the gold one   pics
1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
440 pics

Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #14 on: January 8, 2009, 07:23:36 PM »
I understand the differences in threads and sizes.  The NPT just catches you off gaurd when you have been dealing with bolt for a long time.  Never seems to fail you are looking at something with pipe thread and say it's 1/2".  Only to realize it is actually 3/8" NPT for the reasons you listed. 


Side note what is MIP stand for?

I was looking at brass fittings and converting them to NPT from MIP and can't remember what is stands for.

The D60 front is 7/16" fine threads.

I don't think my D60 rear is that big.  I will be checking
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline jungle

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #15 on: January 8, 2009, 08:14:10 PM »
Did you mean NPT?
National Pipe Thread or National Pipe Tap
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Offline Gerhart

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #16 on: January 9, 2009, 04:50:07 AM »
Wikipedia says: Sometimes NPT threads are referred to as MPT ('Male Pipe Thread'), MNPT, or NPT(M) for male (external) threads; and FPT ('Female Pipe Thread'), FNPT, or NPT(F) for female (internal) threads. An equivalent designation is MIP (Male iron pipe) and FIP (Female iron pipe). Also the terms NPS and NPSM are sometimes used to designate a parallel, instead of taper, thread (this should not be confused with NPS meaning Nominal Pipe Size).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_pipe_thread

So actually MIP is similar to NPT. As I remember, the designation MIP is oftenly used in domestic plumbing.
'77 W200 (former M880), 318, TF 727, NP 203, D44FBJ(F), D60(R), WIP: complete restoration
http://ramchargercentral.com/projects/lowlands-dodge/

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #17 on: January 9, 2009, 06:12:47 AM »
 {cool}
1988 RC.the gold one   pics
1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
440 pics

Offline Gerhart

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #18 on: January 9, 2009, 09:56:51 AM »
To move back to the topic again, I just drilled the original bolt all the way through and soldered a small copper pipe into it, sticking out 1/2". Don't know the actual bolt size (guess 5/16" or 3/8"), but the copper pipe was 6 mm. (appr. 1/4").
From the pipe I ran a 6 mm. fuel hose up to the frame rail. Ran the hose along with the brake hose.
At the end I fitted a universal fuel filter for some protection. I ran the end all the way up to the shock's crossmember to give it some additional protection from mud and dust.
All was fitted with some basic hose clamps. No AN and other expensive stuff.

During my restoration I removed the fuel filter and added a standard ball-type-valve and an axle breather (picture).
The valve's purpose is to be able to close the system during deep fording (closing it before and opening it immediately after).
I have this system on both axles, tranny and transfer case.

Link to the breathers: http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925134+4294839047+115+4294848937
'77 W200 (former M880), 318, TF 727, NP 203, D44FBJ(F), D60(R), WIP: complete restoration
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Offline Elwenil

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #19 on: January 9, 2009, 10:12:04 AM »
I plan to run a hose down the passenger side frame rail that will "T" off to go to the front axle, transmission, transfer case and rear axle that will vent in my intake snorkel on the passenger side of the windshield.  This will include a valve that will close off the vent to the snorkel and apply a few PSI of air pressure from the on board air to pressurize the axles like in the military fording systems.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 09:40:36 PM »
Figured a way to do it with out having to tear down the axle to drill another hole.  Used a 7/16-24 allen head bolt and drilled a hole thru it turned a brass bushing for a tight press fit tapped 1/8 NPT inside the bushing and used a hose barb to cap it off. 

Watcha think?
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline Elwenil

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 09:48:16 PM »
Wouldn't it have been easier to use the stock bolt/nipple?  They are all the same thread, so you can use the one off a 9 1/4" or similar.  I thought with all the talk of NPT and stuff that you guys were doing something different.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2009, 06:27:40 AM »
Figured a way to do it with out having to tear down the axle to drill another hole.  Used a 7/16-24 allen head bolt and drilled a hole thru it turned a brass bushing for a tight press fit tapped 1/8 NPT inside the bushing and used a hose barb to cap it off. 

Watcha think?


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1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 
BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!!
440 pics

Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2009, 07:59:01 PM »
Wouldn't it have been easier to use the stock bolt/nipple?  They are all the same thread, so you can use the one off a 9 1/4" or similar. 

The stock bolt/nipple does not give you much to attach a hose to and I did not like the way it would turn out.  (did not check the one on the 91/4 to see what it looks like) Like I said before if I had thought of this when I was rebuilding the axle I would have drilled and tapped another hole somewhere, but since I didn't I had to come up  something that was functional and looked good since it will be seen under the truck.

I thought with all the talk of NPT and stuff that you guys were doing something different.

Just some simple discussion about ideas.

78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine

Offline Elwenil

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2009, 08:02:34 PM »
Yeah I misunderstood what you guys were doing.  I swapped out the front D60 vent bolt in mine because it was the short one with a little spring loaded cap and used the one off my 9 1/4" to extend a hose up into the frame like the rear D60.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Auribus Tenere Lupum

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2009, 08:14:45 PM »
I plan to run a hose down the passenger side frame rail that will "T" off to go to the front axle, transmission, transfer case and rear axle that will vent in my intake snorkel on the passenger side of the windshield.  This will include a valve that will close off the vent to the snorkel and apply a few PSI of air pressure from the on board air to pressurize the axles like in the military fording systems.

Not to Hijack your thread Gerhart but......... Elwenil could you elaborate on this alittle for me?  I like the Idea of presurizing the axles for water fording, but have no Idea how to go about it.
In a dramatic turn of events, Kendall agrees with Pete......mostly:P

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Offline Elwenil

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2009, 09:21:33 PM »
Basically you apply a few PSI to the axles and drivetrain parts to pressurize them to combat the vacuum when a warm axle is dunked in cool water and just to keep positive internal pressure on the axle to prevent water from entering.  You can't keep the pressure on for long as it will damage the seals and can force gear oil out.  The way the old military trucks worked was that you would close the vent in the fuel filler cap and pull the fording lever that closed off the vents and applied pressure from the vacuum pump for the wipers or from the air system on the larger trucks, crossed the water, then push the lever back in and open the fuel vent.  You can't keep the system closed off or pressurized for very long.  I intend to experiment a bit with it to find a "sweet spot" of pressure that is effective and yet doesn't cause massive fluid loss.  I'll route air from the on board system through a separate regulator to step the pressure down from the 120 PSI supply to 2 or 3 PSI to the drivetrain.  I'm basically copying the setup used on my old M715, minus the dual action fuel pump supplying the pressure and using my old Chrysler A/C compressor instead.  It may not work like I plan, but I think it's an interesting experiment that won't really be much trouble to reverse.  I figure I will have to experiment with a few different seal designs to find what works best.  Even if it does work, I'll probably never use it, lol.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Auribus Tenere Lupum

Offline warlock4x4

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Re: venting a dana 60 rear
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2009, 01:14:24 PM »
Yeah I misunderstood what you guys were doing.  I swapped out the front D60 vent bolt in mine because it was the short one with a little spring loaded cap and used the one off my 9 1/4" to extend a hose up into the frame like the rear D60.

I swapped the one on the D44HD with a hose barb and that is what triggered me to think about the rear D60.  The one on the D44 is seperate from the brake block so it was MUCH easier.
78 Dodge Warlock 440/727/203 11" lift D44HD/D60HD disc 5:13 L/S rear 40" Hawgs Cross-over
85 Dodge Ramcharger 360 4bbl/727/np208 shackle flip 33" TRXUS Powertrax no-slip
92 CTD 4x4 towing machine