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Author Topic: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads  (Read 1617 times)

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Offline Slanted_Mind

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Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« on: August 23, 2006, 11:10:08 AM »
A site search told me I should use 1/4" -20  x 3/8" long set screws.

I will not be using headers, but plan to use magnum exhaust manifolds on my '89 360 (going into the '78 in my sig).

1) Do I still need to plug the EGR holes with set screws if I use the magnum exhaust manifolds?

2) Same as #1, but if I use the stock '78 exhaust manifolds (no EGR valve that I remember on the original engine).

3) What type of head do these set screws have?  Do I need to find set screws with a recessed hex (allen) head so when installed, they are flush with the block?

I have not dug my mag manifolds out of storage in the depths of my storage boxes in the garage, so I do not know how much clearance there will be, or if the mag manifolds cover the holes.

While I'm at it, is a mini-starter required to run the magnum manifolds?  The only interference I can see on the passenger side looks to be the trans dipstick/fill tube, which is easy enough to move.  Do magnum engines mount the starter in a lower position for clearance?  Or is the smaller starter sufficient?

TIA

-SM
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 11:50:49 AM by Slanted_Mind »
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Offline v737d

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 12:27:59 PM »
Howdy SM,

this reply will be ALMOST totally worthless to you!

Yes, use the set screws with the recessed hex (allen head) screws.  They will be flush to slightly below the surface of the head casting.

Be prepared to spend some time cleaning out those  EGR holes. Mine were really clogged up and I spent about 15-20 mins on each hole with brake cleaner WD-40 and whatever else I had laying around until I could get a tap in there to clean out the threads.

Have fun!

Chris
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Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 12:33:07 PM »
Howdy SM,

this reply will be ALMOST totally worthless to you!

Hey, anything helps me in regard to smallblocks.  I am just now starting to play with them. ;D  Some of the things I have run into really make me like my slant even more. ;D

Quote
Yes, use the set screws with the recessed hex (allen head) screws. They will be flush to slightly below the surface of the head casting.

That is what I figured.  I am having trouble finding the set screws though.  My local ACE Hardware does not seem to carry much in the actual "hardware" department. ::)  I had a hell of a time even finding the Grade 8 bolts I wanted for the engine stand!  I'll have to see if I can find a better hardware shop. :-\


Quote
Be prepared to spend some time cleaning out those EGR holes. Mine were really clogged up and I spent about 15-20 mins on each hole with brake cleaner WD-40 and whatever else I had laying around until I could get a tap in there to clean out the threads.

Have fun!

Chris

Best part.  I am working on a brand new rebuild, frsh out of the hot tank. ;D  Althugh it does have paint on it now.   I can scrape the overspray out.

Do the set screws need any sealer (RTV or teflon) applied?

-SM
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Offline BartonsBest

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 01:49:55 PM »
I would recommend you just plug them as described.  Those holes are not EGR related, they are there for air injection.  This is where the fresh air is injected into the exhaust stream to allow continued combustion of unburned exhaust gas.  The Magnum does not use an A.I.R. pump, so it will not have accomodations in the exhaust manifold to cover these ports.

Just plug 'em.  (it is actually very easy).
Good Luck!
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Offline Moparmonster84

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 02:22:03 PM »
Use a tap and fill them right.  That's what I'm going to do, rather stick something in there and hope it seals.  I was thinking along the same route you are intially, but in reality, the tapping method provides a positive seal that you can forget about.
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Offline BIGTRUCKNUT

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2006, 02:40:47 PM »
Tap the holes and use Loctite on the set screws when you install them.
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Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2006, 02:49:52 PM »
Tap the holes and use Loctite on the set screws when you install them.

Loctite won't burn out???
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Offline BIGTRUCKNUT

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2006, 06:39:08 PM »
Loctite won't burn out???
I don't know...but what's a good alternative? 
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Offline truckphone

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2006, 06:48:32 PM »
They are gonna fill with carbon so fast you don't even have to put sealer on em but I would anyway.
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Offline Chump

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2006, 09:52:17 PM »
SM...no sealer needed. If you can't find the screws in your hardware store you might try the local NAPA and see if he carries Rockford brand fasteners. If you still cant fine them, PM me and I'll get you some and mail them to you.:)
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Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2006, 09:59:39 PM »
Thanks Chump. I'll have a look at NAPA tomorrow and let you know.
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Offline IntenseImages

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 10:00:03 PM »
this is what you want aaron



might try home depot or lowes for them. if ouy have a fastenal outlet there, you might try them as well

eric
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Offline MoparFourspeed

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 10:39:58 PM »
Man. You guys are going to think I work for McMaster or something!

Go to www.mcmaster.com and search for "setscrew". I get a lot of oddball hardware from them - like a 3/8-24 (fine thread) grade 8 bolt 3" long and fully threaded.  ;D The prices are pretty reasonable too.

Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2006, 09:11:40 PM »
Well, picked up the screws from NAPA.  They had 8 left. ;D

Unfortuneatley, I went to install them tonight.  They're too small. :(  I haven't even tapped the holes yet, and they slide right in and out. :-\

Guess I'll try 5/16" screws.

-SM
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Offline KThaxton

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2006, 10:11:29 PM »
I had the same problem. I grabbed 1/4 20 set screws from work, went to tap and install them....too small. I wasn't going to stop the project because of this, and logically, I can't see how leaving them unplugged with stock manifolds hurts anything, so I left 'em open.
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You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2006, 10:15:28 PM »
I had the same problem. I grabbed 1/4 20 set screws from work, went to tap and install them....too small. I wasn't going to stop the project because of this, and logically, I can't see how leaving them unplugged with stock manifolds hurts anything, so I left 'em open.

My problem is I want to use the magnum manifolds I have laying around from my 2000 (it has shorty headers), as I have read more than once that mag manifolds flow better than the center dump manifolds.  I do not think they will cover the holes. :(
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Offline BIGTRUCKNUT

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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2006, 11:12:00 PM »
Well, picked up the screws from NAPA. They had 8 left. ;D

Unfortuneatley, I went to install them tonight. They're too small. :( I haven't even tapped the holes yet, and they slide right in and out. :-\

Guess I'll try 5/16" screws.

-SM

Guess I should have mentioned that some heads take a 5/16 - 18 set screw to fill the hole instead of a 1/4 - 20.  Sorry.
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Re: Plugging EGR holes in heads
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2006, 07:26:15 AM »
My problem is I want to use the magnum manifolds I have laying around from my 2000 (it has shorty headers), as I have read more than once that mag manifolds flow better than the center dump manifolds.  I do not think they will cover the holes. :(

I know, I was just yapping about my situation.  ;)
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You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2006, 11:53:41 AM »
How critical is the length of these set screws.  Local NAPA had a very slim selection, and if I remember they only had either 1/4" or 1/2" long ones in 5/16"-18.  Is 1/2" too long (will it bottom out or hit a bend in the casting)?  Tapping that far is no problem.

Is 1/4" too short for an effective seal?  If it carbons up so quickly, would sealing the 1/4" long screws with loctite or RTV hold long enough for the holes to plug themselves with carbon ???
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Offline chrysler300le

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2006, 12:25:38 PM »
Length of it isn't an issue.  Carbon will fill up the hole and seal it.  For a 1/2" long plug you would just tap deeper and if it still sticks out for some reason you could grind it off.
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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2006, 06:42:44 PM »
Sooooo....

Any other suggestions on ways to plugs these boogers?

1/4 is too small, 5/16 is too big.  Actually way too big.  I would have to drill a 17/64 hole to even get my 5/16 tap started.  The 1/4 tap just barely caught metal, but the set screw pushed right through the hole.  I had to fish the plug out of the head with a magnet. :o

Would RTV in the hole with the set screw hold it long enough to have the holes fill with carbon (has anyone tried it)?  I am doubtful, as I have watched even high-temp RTV burn right off header flanges before, and those are a good 2-3 feet off the head.

I thought about trying a metric set screw, but all I found were 6 mm (too small) and 8 mm (too big).  & mm would probably be perfect, but I have neither a tap for 7 mm, nor could I find set screws that size, so I do not know if they are even made.

I am open to any and all suggestions. ;D
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Offline Ram

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2006, 07:35:38 PM »
Could try and clean the hole out and braze shut. You won't be worring about the seal then. 
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Offline BIGTRUCKNUT

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2006, 07:52:28 PM »
I've tapped them to the 5/16 - 18 thread without problem.
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Offline Beast87

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2006, 01:25:19 AM »
Sooooo....

Any other suggestions on ways to plugs these boogers?

1/4 is too small, 5/16 is too big.  Actually way too big.  I would have to drill a 17/64 hole to even get my 5/16 tap started.  The 1/4 tap just barely caught metal, but the set screw pushed right through the hole.  I had to fish the plug out of the head with a magnet. :o

You should be able to start a 5/16 tap with no problem. The recommended tap drill size for 5/16-18 is 15/64, or letter size F, which is smaller than the hole you already have, if a 1/4" set screw will fall into the hole. Are you sure you don't have a bottoming tap instead of a tapered lead tap? A bottoming tap will have very little to no tapered lead. It will be hard to get started in the hole. A tapered lead tap should start treading in the holes you already have quite easily. 
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Offline Slanted_Mind

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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2006, 10:45:09 AM »
You should be able to start a 5/16 tap with no problem. The recommended tap drill size for 5/16-18 is 15/64, or letter size F, which is smaller than the hole you already have, if a 1/4" set screw will fall into the hole. Are you sure you don't have a bottoming tap instead of a tapered lead tap? A bottoming tap will have very little to no tapered lead. It will be hard to get started in the hole. A tapered lead tap should start treading in the holes you already have quite easily.

I am unsure what type of taps I have.  It is a standard craftsman tap&die set.  The 5/16"-18 tap is tapered at the end, but the threads begin approx 1/8" past the end of the tap.  When I attept to start this tap, it will not fit into the hole far enough to engage the threads. :-\

I will see if I can get some pictures.

-SM
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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2006, 03:39:27 PM »
7mm is what you need.  I had the same problem with size and that worked perfect.

Couldnt find 7mm set screws so i just got like 7x16mm bolts cut the head off them and slotted them with the dremel.. not like i plan to take em out ever
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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2006, 04:20:30 PM »
Hey Aaron, I did this on LA heads and it may or may not be relevant to your situation.

I pawed through my "discarded bolt bin" till I found a bolt that threaded into the holes.  Then I brought it to NAPA and told them I needed a couple set screws the same thread pitch.  The ones I got were a little longer than the thickness of the head (I took a piece of coat hanger, bent the end then stuck it in the hole.  Then I used a caliper to see what the thickness was).

Before I threaded the set screws in, I mixed up some JB Weld. Then I slopped it on the set screws quite liberally and put them in.

The RC that the motor was in was the same one that your ashtray came out of.  That 360 is still running today in a local pick-up today. :)
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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2006, 05:45:55 PM »
Update:  After some persistance I was able to get the 5/16" tap started.  I had to chock the engine stand so it wouldn't move, lean on the tap with all the weight I could put on it without tipping the stand, and back it off every 1/2 turn to clear the shavings, but it worked.  There qas quite a liberal usage of lubricating oil as well. ;D I got the 5/16 set screws in there, so all is well.

Thanks to everyone for the help. 8)

-SM
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Re: Plugging Air Injection holes in heads
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2006, 06:57:53 PM »
Yea!  Much joy and happiness, I was getting worried!

Cheers

Chris
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