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Author Topic: Ignition Problem: No Spark  (Read 8088 times)

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Kenneth Turcotte

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Ignition Problem: No Spark
« on: May 9, 2010, 09:50:14 PM »
Ok so as you can guess no spark in spark plug (my truck is posted in my signature box), i replaced the coil, spark plugs, cap, rotor, high tension coil wire and all 8 spark plug wires, and when wipped out the volt meter and there is no power to the coil period (i had the ignition all the way to start, one lead on the postivie, and other on negative), we tested the ballas resister and there is about 9 volts (going in and out) when igntion was on but then the igintion was in the start postition it dropped to about 8 volts. i have an assumption that it is the eletronic igniotin control box on the fender.

Please Help Me

Any suggestions???

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 06:18:53 AM »
l,d say you have a broken wire between the ballast and the coil / try a jumper wire to see if  you have spark and it runs

 
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Offline rednk_cowboi

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 11:52:38 AM »
it sounds to me like the problem i had when i got my RC...it would crank and crank...but wouldnt fire...i too replaced all of that...come to find out my PICKUP COIL, inside the distributor was bad, went to autozone and got a new one, 14.95 i believe....and put it in , fired right up, and had no further problem...not sure if this is your problem, but its just a guess...
FARMER

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 12:31:42 PM »
Was the Pickup Coil a hard thing to replace??


Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 06:46:40 PM »
i looked over the wiring and it looks good, thanks for the diagram.

Also if it was the pickup coil i should sill get power to the coil right??


Offline s ǝoɾ

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 06:54:20 PM »
Yes, the coil will have power regardless of the pickup. (pickup indirectly turns the ground of coil on/off) ignition switch controls the + side.

The ignition box also has nothing to do with + side. It works with the pickup to turn the - on/off.

The ballast is going to reduce voltage to the coil when in the "run" position.

In start position, there is a bypass wire that runs from starter relay straight to the coil, and should give the coil 12v or what ever battery is reading at the moment. (if battery drops to 10v during cranking, that's all you are going to get)

You can do like dodgeboys said, run a jumper straight from + side of coil to + side of battery.

(of course none of this will work if you still didn't fix your last wire problem that was preventing the engine from turning over)
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 06:52:01 AM »
Ok i will try that,

i did fix that last wire problem and the engine will turn over now.

does that wire that runs from the starter relay go into the ballast resister first and then goes to the coil?? 




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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 07:39:19 AM »
email me for the wiring diagrams
put your truck info HERE
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Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 08:09:34 PM »
i emailed that guy with the wiring diagram

we switched the plugs going into the ballist resister around and now it shows there is 8-9 volts going to the coil, but still no spark.

ok so we did some tests on the wiring first we unplugged the plug going to the distributor and we tested both wires using the battery as a ground,

The Brown and white wire going to the distributor was reading 1.7 volts (with the key to ON position) and it dropped to 1.4 volts (when it was at the start postition)

also

the olive green wire had .6(when in the ON positition) and dropped to .2(when the key was on the start postition)

Does this tell anybody anything?


Offline s ǝoɾ

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 08:15:01 PM »
Shouldn't be any voltage going to those wires at any time, especially if you have it unplugged. ;)
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 11:22:39 PM »
so then there is resistance somewere in the wiring?

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 11:58:10 PM »
so then there is resistance somewere in the wiring?

Resistance alone will not magically make electricity appear where it should not otherwise be. I am not exactly sure what to make of that, unless another wire is bleeding into it, through a "short to power".

This is exactly like unplugging your headlights, and then finding out it has voltage while it is in your hand.

I know multimeters sometimes have "ghost" readings when you set them to voltage and don't attach them to anything, but I've never seen one register over a few 10ths on something that is not even plugged in.
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 07:19:32 AM »
Correct me if im wrong but i dont see this wire that should go to the coil coming from the starter relay box.

Does anyone else??

Cause the wires are right for the ignition system according to the diagrams

There is 5 wires going to the coil thats the only thing i dont like cause according to the daigram there should be 3

Offline rednk_cowboi

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 07:43:06 PM »
The pickup coil is inside the distributor, and requires removing the cap, and rotor, and 3 screws around the outside of it....kinda hard to get one of them without removing the distrib. or loosening and turning it....that would include the 2 or 3 wires that run to the distributor inside a harness, as far as voltage to and from it, i have no idea....but my RC would just crank and crank, and fire from time to time....but nothing more....

It didnt help that the previous owner just let it sit outside for 11 months without moving it, and didnt replace or maintain it, so the dist. was full of water due to a loose cap....but i hope this helps you out....best of luck to you
FARMER

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 11:20:55 PM »
Thank You, Rednk_Cowboi

i just had the eletronic ignition unit tested at o'reillys we tested it 3-4 times to makes sure and get a good reading:

It Failed

So i am coming to conclusion that its that unit, it not then i could try the Pickup Coil

Offline s ǝoɾ

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 12:34:08 AM »
Time for "HEI" upgrade from the tech section. ;D

Gets rid of the old wiring, old coil, ballast, and control box. A "fresh start".
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2010, 11:26:38 AM »
HEI Wiring??


Offline ToxicDoc

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 11:35:25 AM »
HEI Wiring??



all over the place and very very simple.  do a *search* (use the search box) and you'll come across a LOT of info here.  I am very pleased with it.
'85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 11:40:56 AM »
isnt it just a new distributor though?

cause i basically already replaced everything else

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2010, 08:04:20 PM »
So guess what i replaced the eletronic ignition unit and still no spark!! >:( >:(

i have replaced:

Coil
Distributor Cap and Rotor
All 9 wires that go to the distributor
all 8 plugs
eletronic igniton control unit
 
So i almost replaced everything in the igniton system exept the ballist resister, pickup coil (in the distributor), and the distributor itself.


Does any one know any tests i can do to check the pickup or ballist resister???

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2010, 08:11:20 PM »
ballast and pickup test are easiest tested with OHMS. As with all other ohms tests, make sure that everything is unplugged.

That means for pickup, unplug the 2 wire step shaped plug and measure ohms between pins.

Unhook the ballast and measure between the pins.
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2010, 08:12:39 PM »
The ballast resistor is bypassed when you start the engine, so if you're not getting spark, it isn't the ballast.
'85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 08:15:58 PM »
If i unplug the wires on the pickup the reading should be 0 cause there should be no resistance and if there is then i know its that part right??

Offline SansDodge75

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 08:16:39 PM »
Start where you know you have power and go one compoment at a time checking each one working your way to the coil. if you wiring harness is still stock and not all butchered to hell, you may have a broken or corroded wire.

Now my question, was it running before you started working on it??

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 08:22:14 PM »
no it is not simply 0 or a reading, as far as go-no go. As a matter of fact, 0 is a automatic fail, but so are other numbers. Just measure and let us know what your findings are.
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2010, 09:19:17 PM »
ok i used the 2000 ohms mark on my multmeter and i got a reading of 379

the truck needed a rebuild after my brother had it in high school(the reason for a rebuild is because of no oil pressure, and the cambearings were shot)

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2010, 10:06:42 PM »
Pass. (unless either pin shows continuity to distributor base, that would be a fail)
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Offline SGT Sanchez82

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 12:48:56 AM »
you should have battery voltage at the red arrows with key on.....

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." -Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2010, 07:02:58 AM »
you should have battery voltage at the red arrows with key on.....


Want to point out that BOTH coil terminals are hot any time the module is not firing a cylinder.

Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 02:01:37 PM »
ok i will check the the red arrows and then i will report back,

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2010, 09:09:34 PM »
Ok this is what i got  {noclue}

Offline SansDodge75

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2010, 09:28:50 PM »
Question, is the ballast resitor you hace a 2 terminal or 4 terminal. If its 4 try swapping to the other set of terminals. IIRC there are two different resistance levels on each side of the 4 termnal resistor.

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2010, 09:55:26 PM »
The starter solenoid and starter relay should be within 10ths of a volt of the battery.

Moving one lead to the positive post, and other to starter relay or starter while turning the key should give a reading of only decimals, such as .300, maybe less.

Have you bypassed your amp gauge yet? (weak spot, failure prone)
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Offline SGT Sanchez82

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2010, 11:07:35 PM »
look for voltage drop from battery to ignition switch.... then voltage on wire( j10-16re) coming from ignition switch

double check your grounds (body ground, engine ground, engine to body ground)
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." -Sir Winston Churchill

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Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2010, 06:32:57 AM »
engine to body ground??

i didnt know you needed that??


my amp gauge works


my ballist resister is a 4 termial

Looks like this

    -------
    - |  | -
    -       -
    -       -
    - |  | -
    -------
   

Offline s ǝoɾ

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2010, 08:31:57 AM »
Keep watching this over and over and over until it makes sense:

Starter Circuit Voltage Drop



You don't have sufficient power coming out of the relay which feeds both the starter solenoid and ignition coil.

That means the problem is between the relay and the battery, any where the big wire goes.

Bypass the amp gauge, get rid of the fire hazard. I'm not sure how it is tied into the circuit because this diagram doesn't show it.

There should not be a reading over .300 between the red highlighted wire, measuring with 1 lead at each end while attempting to turn it over.
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Offline KThaxton

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2010, 08:38:20 AM »

my amp gauge works



It may "work", but it can still be a problem area wether it is your current problem or not. I consider the bypass a must-do for any 81 and older truck. Read this for some insight:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml  ;)
STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake  ;D

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2010, 08:46:18 AM »
Ok, according to this crude diagram, it isn't part of the circuit.



If that diagram is correct, there shouldn't be anything between the relay and battery, except for the battery terminal and whatever terminal is used on the relay. That said, if power isn't coming out sufficiently high, but still some coming out, then you have a relay problem (not as likely), or not enough going into the relay (very likely).
Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2010, 11:20:23 PM »
Ok so in this picture i tryed (before when it still wouldnt turn over) to move the bright green marked wire to the post to the starter relay (to bypass the dark green wire) cause i though it was a problem,
and i burned a ground wire (at that time the ground wire i have there was a 16-18 gauge, i didnt know it had to be a larger size)that is inside the purple circle and im wondering would that have caused any form of damage to the starter relay box??

ps i did replace both of the postive and negative battery cables and the starter relay recently

Offline SansDodge75

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2010, 12:01:01 AM »
If that gound is on the fender well, move it to the block or frame rail Where it is now is not a sufficent ground.

On mine I have the - side of the battery grounded to the engine block and then tied in with that is a grounding strap to the frame.

Offline SGT Sanchez82

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2010, 12:45:08 AM »
that orange wire on starter relay should have battery voltage with key on....
also check the green with whitestripe wire coming off relay that's ground for relay runs off your neutral safety switch....

jump that pink wire(of starter relay) with battery voltage and crank  her up if it starts then its your relay....this way your giving the coil 12v directly...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 12:58:50 AM by SGTSANCHEZ82 »
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." -Sir Winston Churchill

1986 W150 360/727/208 DANA 44 FRONT 9.25 REAR 33x12.50x15 PRO COMP XTERRIAN
2007 DODGE NITRO 3.7L DANA 30 FRONT CORP 8.25 REAR PART TIME 4WD 265/75/16 BF

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2010, 01:05:02 AM »
If that gound is on the fender well, move it to the block or frame rail Where it is now is not a sufficent ground.

x2.  That is a crappy spot for a ground.  Attach it to the engine - cylinder head should have a spot for it, clean the contact area, apply a *very* thin amount of dielectric grease (to prevent corrosion) and tighten it down.  Then make sure you have a proper ground strap from the engine to the frame or body.  My ground cable is split and has one going to the block and another part going to the body.
'85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

Kenneth Turcotte

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2010, 12:34:09 PM »
so in other words, my starter relay box isnt getting a sufficet ground so in turn its not working properly?


and why would the green and whitestripe wire be a ground, inless its a ground trigger to turn it on or off

Offline s ǝoɾ

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2010, 03:42:57 PM »
You don't have sufficient power coming out of the relay which feeds both the starter solenoid and ignition coil.

That means the problem is between the relay and the battery, any where the big wire goes.

Bypass the amp gauge, get rid of the fire hazard. I'm not sure how it is tied into the circuit because this diagram doesn't show it.

There should not be a reading over .300 between the red highlighted wire, measuring with 1 lead at each end while attempting to turn it over.

Avoid replacing any part that you have not proven to be faulty through extensive testing.

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2013, 11:44:10 AM »
Correct me if im wrong but i dont see this wire that should go to the coil coming from the starter relay box.

Does anyone else??

Cause the wires are right for the ignition system according to the diagrams

There is 5 wires going to the coil thats the only thing i dont like cause according to the daigram there should be 3
Awesome diagram,, Thanks for posting!

Offline reddually99

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2014, 07:47:33 PM »
Was this issue ever resolved? ???

Offline ToxicDoc

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2014, 07:58:59 PM »
enough digging up 3 year old posts.
'85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

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Re: Ignition Problem: No Spark
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2014, 11:27:11 PM »
why do we even keep anything that old?
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soon to be aluminum head 408 magnum/5speed/D70 dually