Author Topic: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers  (Read 1692 times)

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Offline Carzy90

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Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« on: September 2, 2012, 04:44:31 PM »
Hey guys,

Finally had my rig on the road long enough that I have to change the oil again!  Started this yesterday after rompin around Moscow Mountain, and everything went as expected until it came time to change the filter..  Tried just about every angle/exit point possible but just couldn't get the dang thing to drop!  Even tried loosening the bolts back and tilting them back for extra clearance, but then the intermediate pipe hit against the transfer case bracket.  I had already been wrestling with the motor for about 2 hours so didn't want to go through the ordeal of disconnecting the whole exhaust system. 

Headers are those cheap Summit brand ones.. And the filter is a Fram PH43, which is pretty big.  Anyone got any tricks for sliding these out, or else a smaller/thinner filter option?
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 Royal SE "Betsy"
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #1 on: September 2, 2012, 04:53:27 PM »
Put a remote filter on there if its going to be this difficult.

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-filter-bases/24764.html

Have to also use block adapter from jegs
« Last Edit: September 2, 2012, 04:55:43 PM by Captain Obvious »

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #2 on: September 2, 2012, 04:57:38 PM »
I would stop using Fram filters immediately.  On the access issue, you can get a 90 oil filter adaptor from the old 340 engines and also found on most cop car engines, to give you more room.  If you go the remote filter route, be sure and toss the hoses the kits come with and replace them with braided line and fittings.  It will cost you about $120 more, but the crappy hoses that come in the kits are known to fail and will instantly result in gutted bearings.  Ask me how I know.  ;D
L.Clemons

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Offline mopar65pa

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #3 on: September 2, 2012, 05:08:08 PM »
I would stop using Fram filters immediately.  On the access issue, you can get a 90 oil filter adaptor from the old 340 engines and also found on most cop car engines, to give you more room.  If you go the remote filter route, be sure and toss the hoses the kits come with and replace them with braided line and fittings.  It will cost you about $120 more, but the crappy hoses that come in the kits are known to fail and will instantly result in gutted bearings.  Ask me how I know.  ;D


How do you know Lanty?  :P
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #4 on: September 2, 2012, 05:13:22 PM »
He is right^

Thats why by providing you links for piece-meal parts, i am preventing you from buying kit. You'd have to intentionally order wrong parts then it would be no body but your own fault.

If you do not know how to do braided hosing, there is quality pushlok hosing available.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performance/312/P5249624AB/10002/-1?parentProductId=1691314


http://www.jegs.com/i/Trans-Dapt/969/1013/10002/-1?parentProductId=



Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #5 on: September 2, 2012, 05:17:13 PM »

How do you know Lanty?  :P


My Charger in the garage at the local Fisher/Federated parts store after the oil line blew and gutted the bottom end in my new (less than 2k miles) 300HP Magnum crate engine:



My Charger's engine bay after replacing the short block and offending oil lines.  Note the braided steel lines off to the passenger side:

L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline Gohot

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #6 on: September 3, 2012, 07:30:09 AM »
I'd say a remote filter would be best. Getting off the old filter would seem your problem now though. Can you loosen it so it will unscrew off the stock mount boss? If you could just loosen it, you could re-snug it loosely hand tight and then cut it off or  tear into it and cut it apart with dikes or something. This will be messy, but if you can get enough can off of the filter to where theres only the screw on base part, you then could probably spin the base section of the filter right off. THEN, go ahead and mount the adapter to the oil filter boss and install a remote filter assembly.

Otherwise if you cant do that, you will have to disconnect at the collector and from the block and spin it off and install the remote assembly and new gasket and sinch the header back to the block. A one time deal from then on with the easily accessed remote canister.
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Offline Carzy90

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #7 on: September 3, 2012, 04:57:38 PM »
Thanks!  I would not have thought about a remote filter option..  But yes, now just getting that darn thing out is the biggest obstacle.  I have it back on the block for now since I had to move my rig from the blacktop I was doing the change at to my parking spot.  Once I get a chance I'll get that system rigged up.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 Royal SE "Betsy"
360 Quadrajet V8 727 Auto

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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #8 on: September 3, 2012, 05:16:22 PM »
Repeat, no cheapass hose and hose clamp. Gotta use the proper hoses swivels or fittings. If a cooler is ever going to be added now is the time.

Most of fittings will likely be 1/2npt and or-8 JIC or A/N. JIC is basically same thing but usually steel, cheaper, and not spec for certain aircraft or military apps. Same threads, different tolerances, still usually rated for several thousand psi. Doesnt have to be steel braid but can be.

Offline pjc360

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #9 on: September 3, 2012, 08:15:39 PM »
go to your local napa auto parts and ask for the napa gold part number 1085 oil filter, that 1085 napa gold oi filter will fit with long tube hedders. The wix part number for the same oil filter is 51085. And the car quest number is 081085 i believe. And i agree stay away from fram, they suck.
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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #10 on: September 3, 2012, 08:42:27 PM »
Also, keep in mind that this filter is done.  You aren't going to save it for anything so it's ok if you destroy it getting it off.  Just make sure you have a shorter filter like Pjc360 suggested or some alternate oil filter mounting method like we discussed above.  If you have to crush the old filter, cut it apart or whatever, it's not going to matter.  Just be careful if you cut it open as it will slice your hand open easily and it will make a mess.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline Carzy90

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #11 on: September 4, 2012, 01:12:08 PM »
Couple questions on the Remote Filter option.

How will this affect my oil pressure, including how it might change on severe inclines, side-slopes etc?  I still like to play with my rig so I don't wanna set something up that's gonna kill my pressure when I start climbing.

Is it better to mount the unit above the block (like Elwenil's pic) or down lower?  Kinda same question as above, just whatever setup will be better for oil pressure.  Otherwise I may want to just go with the different proportioned filter for now.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 Royal SE "Betsy"
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"We can't stop here... This is BAT country!!!"

Offline Ragman

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #12 on: September 4, 2012, 01:37:34 PM »
I'd shit can those Summit headers. I bought a set last year for my W150 and they are junk. Drivers side hit the frame, starter and oil pan. Pass side rubs on the front rear shackle bolt and the weird angle puts a big bend in the exhaust to clear the transmission crossmember. Only thing good about the pass side being to close to the frame is I have no prob reaching the oil filter. When they rust out (whice will very soon I'm sure) I am gonna invest in a little better quality header.
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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #13 on: September 4, 2012, 01:41:35 PM »
Couple questions on the Remote Filter option.

How will this affect my oil pressure, including how it might change on severe inclines, side-slopes etc?  I still like to play with my rig so I don't wanna set something up that's gonna kill my pressure when I start climbing.

Is it better to mount the unit above the block (like Elwenil's pic) or down lower?  Kinda same question as above, just whatever setup will be better for oil pressure.  Otherwise I may want to just go with the different proportioned filter for now.

In my experience the remote filter caused no oil pressure issues.  Consider that a healthy oil pump produces too much oil pressure naturally to begin with and the relief valve usually stays open a little all the time so it can easily compensate.  On my Charger, I took a Dremel to the oil filter adaptors and smoothed out the passages since they usually have some nasty right angle bends with no transition in the casting to keep the flow up.  If climbing an incline causes a drop in oil pressure it will be because the pickup is uncovered, not due to a remote filter.  As long as the setup does not have any horrible restrictions like lines that are too small or kinks in the hoses you shouldn't have any pressure or oil volume problems.

As far as mounting, you can mount them just about anywhere that is convenient.  On my old Ramcharger I mounted it in front of the passenger side wheel on the frame if I remember right.  On the Charger the frame rails were only a couple inches off the ground due to lowering it so the filter had to go up somewhere.  Keep in mind that where you mount is needs to have room under it to remove the filter and it will drain oil out when you do so a place that allows you to put a pan under it or is easy to clean up is preferred.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline sls001

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #14 on: September 4, 2012, 01:45:15 PM »
I have Headman Elite long-tube headers and have no trouble getting the oil filter in and out

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #15 on: September 4, 2012, 01:57:27 PM »
Agreed, my Hedman's fit and worked great though mine were for a big block.  The reason I went to a remote filter on my old Ramcharger with the 360 was I used Thermo-Tec header wrap on the headers and any oil that got on them from changing the filter would burn for hours and occasionally flame up and burn like an oil lamp.  I got tired of soaking my header wrap down after each oil change and being paranoid about it so I just moved the filter.  On the Charger it was similar since I also used header wrap on it but the headers on it were larger and getting to the filter was possible from underneath but due to it being lowered it was a huge pain to jack up to change the oil without a lift.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline Gerhart

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #16 on: September 5, 2012, 08:30:37 AM »
Moving the filter to a remote place will also help a lot in oil temp and oil life. Especially if your filter is that close to the headers. So pick a spot in a cool area and route the lines away form your exhaust.
My filter is placed just below the radiator, close to the passenger's side frame rail.
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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #17 on: September 5, 2012, 10:11:00 AM »
 {popcorn}

  need to see this one easily.
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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #18 on: September 5, 2012, 10:11:20 AM »
 {ttiwwop}
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Offline Carzy90

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #19 on: September 5, 2012, 10:13:05 AM »
I'd shit can those Summit headers. I bought a set last year for my W150 and they are junk. Drivers side hit the frame, starter and oil pan. Pass side rubs on the front rear shackle bolt and the weird angle puts a big bend in the exhaust to clear the transmission crossmember. Only thing good about the pass side being to close to the frame is I have no prob reaching the oil filter. When they rust out (whice will very soon I'm sure) I am gonna invest in a little better quality header.

Yes, I am seeing why these were so cheap  ::)  I went with a mini-starter because my old unit just wouldn't fit with these.  Had to do some real interesting maneuvering to get these to fit between my transfer case member.  Will most likely invest in some Hookers next since I already bought a header-back kit from them, but that will probably wait till I overhaul the whole motor haha.

Moving the filter to a remote place will also help a lot in oil temp and oil life. Especially if your filter is that close to the headers. So pick a spot in a cool area and route the lines away form your exhaust.
My filter is placed just below the radiator, close to the passenger's side frame rail.

I noticed there seemed to be a LOT of residue around the filter when I tried to pull it..  Definitely seemed like she has gotten a little hot at times. 

Thanks guys!  Will probably mount this up by my charc canisters.  Gotta wait for the next paycheck, but luckily nothing is too far here in Pullman that I can't bike to!  ;D
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 Royal SE "Betsy"
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Offline Ragman

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #20 on: September 5, 2012, 10:27:19 AM »
Yes, I am seeing why these were so cheap  ::)  I went with a mini-starter because my old unit just wouldn't fit with these.  Had to do some real interesting maneuvering to get these to fit between my transfer case member.  Will most likely invest in some Hookers next since I already bought a header-back kit from them, but that will probably wait till I overhaul the whole motor haha.

I noticed there seemed to be a LOT of residue around the filter when I tried to pull it..  Definitely seemed like she has gotten a little hot at times. 

Thanks guys!  Will probably mount this up by my charc canisters.  Gotta wait for the next paycheck, but luckily nothing is too far here in Pullman that I can't bike to!  ;D

I got the factory starter in but I had to dimple the header tube in for it to fit. I have to take the header loose and jack up the side of the engine to get the starter in or out. I had to dimple the the tube also to clear the frame rail. I have seen pictures of other Dodges with headers and they have a good inch clearance between there frame rail. This is the second set I've owned of Summit brand headers over the years and the first set fit great but they were so damn thin they sounded like your exhaust was running through a tin can. Also they rusted out in about 2 years. I guess this is what happens when your cheap and in a hurry.  :)
1978 W150 Club Cab "Spare Change" D44/D60,360/435/205
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Offline Carzy90

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #21 on: September 6, 2012, 02:59:11 PM »
Ok, before I order this stuff I just wanted to double check this part.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-21560/?rtype=10

From what I understand, I would need this plus the adapter listed in "required parts" ( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-21566/?rtype=10 ), correct?  I know you guys said to avoid kits, but this does come with the braided steel lines.  Guess the only thing I will have to check is if the 24" length will get me where I plan to mount it..
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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #22 on: September 6, 2012, 04:03:52 PM »
That appears to be correct per Milodon's website.  The image for the oil filter adaptor is all wrong but the application looks right by the Milodon part number.  24" will probably get you out on the frame rail or up on the inner fender. 
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline Carzy90

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #23 on: September 6, 2012, 05:46:13 PM »
That appears to be correct per Milodon's website.  The image for the oil filter adaptor is all wrong but the application looks right by the Milodon part number.  24" will probably get you out on the frame rail or up on the inner fender.

Yeah I thought that looked odd with the bolts..  Alrighty thanks for all the help!
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Offline RCCDrew

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Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #24 on: September 6, 2012, 07:12:56 PM »
I can change my filter with flow tech headers... If I don't use the engine/trans brace. :/
The "experts" are great at telling you what you can't do. Don't let someone else's opinion be your limiting factor.

Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #25 on: September 6, 2012, 07:56:26 PM »
That is a lot of money for 2 24" hoses. The npt adapters (4 needed) are around $20. The hose ends vary and so does the hose, but you certainly arent limited in length.

Offline Gerhart

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #26 on: September 7, 2012, 05:24:40 AM »
Nipple size on the engine is 3/4-16 and not 13/16-16 like in the link.
And the pic is very different from what should fit.

Deserves some extra research.
Many manufactures have a correct adapter (and a lot cheaper), just search under the 3/4-16 fitment.
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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #27 on: September 7, 2012, 10:24:08 AM »
if you mount your remote oil filter in the right place you can run a bigger filter than you normally could even with manifolds.  might as well get some extra filtration while you're at it.

this one holds right at 2qt and is basically twice as large as the standard filter.

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51773.html

it interchanges to a motorcraft FL299 with should be easier to cross reference at a parts store if you'd rather use other brands.  i like wix (napa gold/carquest blue) personally.

matt

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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #28 on: September 7, 2012, 10:49:17 AM »
Nipple size on the engine is 3/4-16 and not 13/16-16 like in the link.
And the pic is very different from what should fit.

Deserves some extra research.
Many manufactures have a correct adapter (and a lot cheaper), just search under the 3/4-16 fitment.

As mentioned above, the Milodon 21566 appears to be the correct adaptor and is listed for Ford and Chrysler engines which have very similar oil filter specs.  The Summit description and image leave a lot to be desired but the image is copied from Milodon's site where the 21566 part has no image listed.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline Gerhart

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #29 on: September 7, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »
As mentioned above, the Milodon 21566 appears to be the correct adaptor and is listed for Ford and Chrysler engines which have very similar oil filter specs.  The Summit description and image leave a lot to be desired but the image is copied from Milodon's site where the 21566 part has no image listed.

Didn't check Milodon's site, just noticed the spec on Summit's site. That made me a bit suspicious.
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Offline one4house

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #30 on: September 7, 2012, 01:23:44 PM »
This thread got longer than my attention span, so forgive me if this was already said.

On my 86 Ramcharger with long tube headers, I just loosen the brace that goes from the transmission to the block. It will drop out of the way and the filter comes right out.

That would be a lot simpler and easier than a remote filter.
86 Ramcharger, 360, 727, Edelbrock 1405, Edelbrock RPM Manifold, LockRite Front Locker, Non-CAD Dana 44.

Offline Carzy90

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Remote Oil filter build
« Reply #31 on: September 7, 2012, 06:01:56 PM »
PHEW!

Ok, after digging a little deeper I think I've got a better set of parts lined up.

Here is the hose I found (4ft. for example, but will actually check what I need later).  It's 10 AN like the kit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIO-MMSBH-10-4/?rtype=10

I will use this for the mount then.  Made sure it was 3/4-16in: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-1028/

Will still use the Milodon 21566, I went and looked for myself and there is in fact NO picture on the Milodon site, but as elwenil said the part # matches the chrysler application.  I guess all that would be left is two more AN/NPT fittings ( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220047/ ) since the adapter has some already.

Gee wiz, this thread may need to be saved to tech discussion. 
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #32 on: September 7, 2012, 06:21:24 PM »
2 hoses for $120 or can have a longer bulk length enough to make 2 for like $60.

Offline 340SHORTY

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #33 on: September 8, 2012, 05:43:47 AM »
For what he's gonna spend on the remote filter stuff he could buy a set of headers that allow the filter to be removed easier.. 
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Offline RCCDrew

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Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #34 on: September 8, 2012, 06:42:15 AM »
I agree.
The "experts" are great at telling you what you can't do. Don't let someone else's opinion be your limiting factor.

Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #35 on: September 8, 2012, 08:48:34 AM »
yet the remote filter stuff has added benefits of cooling , and if using the double filter set up with larger filters, also ads capacity, and better filtration.
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Offline ChrisKD

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #36 on: September 8, 2012, 09:55:28 AM »
"340" 90* Adapter is your easiest approach. another version (made from aluminum) was used into the late 70's on other engines/cars, but its still known as the 340 Adapter by most people.

You can see it here on this 340, with a large filter.

It aims the filter toward the transmission, and can be removed with headers on the vehicle (even in a tight engine compartment like an A-Body)
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Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #37 on: September 8, 2012, 10:05:23 AM »
I posted links for the 90. Its $180.


Offline Elwenil

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Re: Changing oil filter w/ longtube headers
« Reply #38 on: September 8, 2012, 10:23:01 AM »
They are on just about every Fury/Diplomat cop car ever built also so the chances of finding one in a junkyard are pretty good.
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