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Author Topic: 1987 318 ignition timing help  (Read 3684 times)

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Offline Okiedodge

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1987 318 ignition timing help
« on: February 12, 2005, 09:28:59 PM »
I have a 1987 RC.  It has a 318 'LA'.  I need to set the timing.  I am reading my book and it refers to a "timing hole" in the bellhousing.  I am used to timing marks on a Harmonic balancer.  

The engine runs rough until it warms up which I think is a choke issue.  After it warms up, when I step on the gas, the engine hesitates, and acts as though it does not advance timing and it really bogs down.  If I feather the pedal, it catches up.  I also notice that the tranny does not alway shift down on accelleration.  I think the likage may need adjustment.

I think I have a combination of problems.  I need some help if it is possible

Thanks!!
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Offline mid_evil_thymz

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2005, 10:48:39 PM »
Hmm,
I think have never hear of a timing hole in the bell housing. What is in the bellhousing that would help you set the timing? From your description I think that we are talking about the 727 automatic? Inside the bellhousing is the tourque converter and the flexplate from the back of the engine. Are there no timing marks on the damper. I am really lost here. You have the vaccuum advance lean burn setup on that I believe. If that's the case then the lean burn ectomy may be the thing for you to look into. I don't know if this is completely related to the timing. It sounds more like a carb thing to me. I can say with some suredness that your transmission kickdown lever needs to be adjusted if the tranny isnt downshifting when the throttle is depressed. If the carb is a 4 barrel then you may have a float issue in the secondaries that is cusing the bogging down. there's a lot of things to diagnose here so throw me some more info and I'll try to help.
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Offline Okiedodge

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Re:1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2005, 11:10:33 PM »
1)  I am not sure how to tell if it is a lean burn.

2)  If it is lean burn, how do I get rid of it (parts)

3)  The book said there was a timing hole.  I did not look at  the damper yet, I am sure it has number, I never saw one without.  

4) I did rebuild the carb a few months back, but if the timing is off, then the mixure adjustment is also off because I adjusted it for smoth idle, it does run rich.

5) The timing just does not seem to advance at all.

Thanks!!
Normally I don't talk to Obama supporters, but when I do, I ask for large fries with my order.

KARMA   1X10 -29


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2013 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4 X 4 SMASHED BY F4 Tornado
2010 Charger

Offline Wile E Coyote

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2005, 11:21:46 PM »
It's a lean burn/ESA, but might have feedback carb or not, is there an O2 sensor just below the D-side exhaust manny?
Don't worry 'bout the timing hole thing, it won't change how you use the timing light.
I think the carb needs adjustment, check the secondaries, they aren't quite opening soon enough or wide enough, or accel pump isn't giving a big enough shot. (a momentary lean or WAY rich condition when you mash the throttle)
I'm originally from West Virginia, but I'm not a hill-billy, I prefer the term "Appalachian American!
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Offline mid_evil_thymz

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2005, 11:25:18 PM »
Yeah Im thinking Carb also. The lean burnectomy wont hurt thoughI did it and so did a lot of my chapter members and we loved it. There's an article here somewhere about it. Id check the carb probs that AZ mentioned I think thats where you'll find the prob. Also I think the timing is set up front on that damper
1993 2wd Dodge P/U. 1st Gen Cummins, auto. Banks Turbo Package, K&N filter, Homemade WVO (veg oil) System, Aftermarket Trans coolers (2) with electric fan. Banks Gauges, Us Gear exhaust brake. 5th wheel, Rhino lined, lots more.... 2004 Grand Caravan (wifes)

Offline Okiedodge

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2005, 11:31:59 PM »
Thanks guys.  The carb is a 2bbl.  I just hate having to "fix" what the factory should have gotten right.  Can I get the parts at at auto zone or somewhere like that?
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KARMA   1X10 -29


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2013 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4 X 4 SMASHED BY F4 Tornado
2010 Charger

Offline mid_evil_thymz

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2005, 11:35:19 PM »
The parts for a lean burn can be snagged at any junkyard for ten bucks..
dig up the lean burn article and it'll tell you what to get.
Mid_Evil_Thymz
1993 2wd Dodge P/U. 1st Gen Cummins, auto. Banks Turbo Package, K&N filter, Homemade WVO (veg oil) System, Aftermarket Trans coolers (2) with electric fan. Banks Gauges, Us Gear exhaust brake. 5th wheel, Rhino lined, lots more.... 2004 Grand Caravan (wifes)

Offline Ramdawg

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2005, 07:37:17 AM »
How many miles on the engine?  Mine did the same thing yours is doing at 115,000.  It was slack in the timing chain. I adjusted the timing and it runs great now.  
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Offline chrysler300le

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2005, 07:55:03 AM »
my dads 87 318 was suppose to be set at 8 degrees btc by the harmonic balancer.  Set your timing first and see how it runs.  I really think you have carb issues though.
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Offline OhPinions

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Re:1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2005, 12:08:19 PM »
Um... I'm betting on a defective EGR. Unplug the vacuum line from the EGR and plug up the vacuum line. Problems with the EGR and Coolant switch valve(s), along with vacuum leaks within the system, often mask themselves as choke problems, especially when the weather is cold. Give it a try.
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Offline Okiedodge

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2005, 02:00:21 PM »
Thanks a million!!
Normally I don't talk to Obama supporters, but when I do, I ask for large fries with my order.

KARMA   1X10 -29


1987 Ramcharger
2013 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4 X 4 SMASHED BY F4 Tornado
2010 Charger

Offline KThaxton

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Re:1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2005, 09:11:03 PM »
Just an FYI.....vans have the hole in the bell housing and have timing marks on the torque converter. This allows you to check the timing with the "doghouse" removed.
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Offline benwest84

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2005, 11:09:05 PM »
sounds more like the carb. a lot like the accelerater pump. but i dont know about lean burn. (thankfully) :- )
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Offline Wile E Coyote

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2005, 12:48:00 PM »
Classic carb symptoms.
Since it's a 2bbl, ignore the part about the secondaries, and adjust the accel pump to give a bigger shot. Thats what compensates for the big change in vac signal and A/F ratio when the throttle opens suddenly, which momentarily overtaxes the ability of the normal curcuits in the carb. I asked earlier about the O2 sensor.....so is it a Holley 2280( no O2,) or 6280 (O2 sensor)?
I'm originally from West Virginia, but I'm not a hill-billy, I prefer the term "Appalachian American!
85 RC 4x4, mildly built 360-727-NP208-Big Foot XT's-Aussie locked, yada yada
90 Toyota Land Cruiser-FJ-62...dependable family wheeler/daily driver
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Offline Okiedodge

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2005, 12:50:13 PM »
2280.  That makes sense.  How do I adjust the pump?  I rebuilt it a while back, but I am not a carb man so it is most likely out of adustment.

Thanks!!

Tommy
Normally I don't talk to Obama supporters, but when I do, I ask for large fries with my order.

KARMA   1X10 -29


1987 Ramcharger
2013 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4 X 4 SMASHED BY F4 Tornado
2010 Charger

Offline Wile E Coyote

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2005, 01:07:30 PM »
It's been awhile since I've worked on that carb, but it's either by bending the pump LINK slightly straighter (lengthening it's travel) or bending the pump LEVER to increase pump shaft travel. the instruction sheet that came with the rebuild kit you used awhile back would have the adjustment procedure. But since you didn't keep the instructions :)  ,lol, you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in with more accurate recall than mine.
YW,
Mike
I'm originally from West Virginia, but I'm not a hill-billy, I prefer the term "Appalachian American!
85 RC 4x4, mildly built 360-727-NP208-Big Foot XT's-Aussie locked, yada yada
90 Toyota Land Cruiser-FJ-62...dependable family wheeler/daily driver
02 Nissan Quest- family daily driver

Offline OhPinions

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Re:1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2005, 01:16:01 PM »
That's the same carburetor I have. There isn't much information @ Holley as far as adjustments (primarily the power valve and accellerator pump). The FSM goes into it extensively and in all over the place to make it as confusing as possible. The FSM lists the 2280 as Mopar part number 4306451, and Holley part number R-40164.

Holley does have a couple of books of carb rebuilding and tuning, maybe available at the library.

edit: As a side note, the needle valve can be changed w/o carb disassembly. Napa carries them, about $8, new float $11.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2005, 02:00:55 PM by OhPinions »
1985 RC Royal SE Prospector's package (owned since new)
318 - 2bbl (Federal) 727, 9-1/4 rear, Dana 44 CAD front


Bent it, broke it, fixed it - at least once

Offline offroader_dodge

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RE: 1987 318 ignition timing help
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2005, 03:18:26 PM »
the accelerator pump needs to be properly adjusted after rebuild,and power valve may be sticking.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2005, 03:30:40 PM by offroader_dodge »
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