hi all,

user Gerhart altered his trucks drivetrain angle to raise his trucks belly
http://www.4x4offroads.com/dodge-w200-m880-1977.html
We all know the W-series low tranny crossmember and it's perefence to push mud like a shovel or
hang up on rocks.

I just wanted to ask for thoughts on another  -idea i had:


I'd remove the crossmember completely and raise the end of the drivetrain until the output shaft is parallel to the frame rails.

Following that i'd shorten a 4wd transmission extension by 2" (heightwise) and drill and tap two 1/2" holes 1" measured from its new bottom into it's sides to accept 1/2" studs (or maybe 5/8" to add strength).

I'd then flip the stock crossmember hangers, bolt a stock engine mount rubber to it and fabricate a hanger that bolts to the transmission extension and the other side of the engine mount.


In combination with a clock ring for the np203 that should result in a nice flat belly... i believe.


The first major concern  i have about doing this is the transmissions oil pan:
It's bottom is flat when the drivetrain is in the stock "rear down" position and oil would accumulate in the front of the pan when drivetrain's angled flat.

Could that lead to transmission failure?

Second major concern is driveshaft angle. 
I know they change, but have no clue how and what effects that will have on drivetrain vibration and angles....

Third concern:
I don't have a transmission extension handy so i can't check my measurements and wall thickness at the points i'd like to drill.

Fourth concern:
The stock "hockey puk" transmission rubbers are very stiff and it's bolted to the crossmember with 1" ?! bolts. I'm afraid the whole drivetrain would flex a lot more in it's mounts if i use engine mounts for the transmission. Especially when the drivetrain pulls on them whereas they were constructed to be pushed by the engine weight... i could use newer "interlock" engine mounts with these metal tabs inside to prevent the transmission from dropping in case the rubber fails but that still "hurts" thoughtwise...

I'm thinking of a way to reuse the "hockey puks" and 1" bolts to hold the tranny but that thought is not finished yet.


What do you think of the idea itself?


Thank you

Alex

I thought about this but it would also require re-clocking the transfer case close to horizontal as the passenger side of the case is pretty close to the current level of the skid plate.  In the case of my NP205, it pretty much sits right on the skidplate.  With a NP203, a clocking ring may be a bad idea since clocking rings eat up a lot of spline engagement when added to a stock setup.

Honestly, I have only ever heard of one person clocking a NP203 and I think that was with a custom adaptor and clock ring.  the only think I can find on the net are the NP203/NP205 clocking rings that clock the NP205 in relation to the NP203 range box.  The NP203 is not a popular case for aftermarket modifications other than cannibalizing it for the range box in a doubler setup so you may not have much luck finding a place that makes them.  Usually the vehicles that get modified to the level of smoothing the belly don't run stock transfer cases and certainly not one as unpopular as the fulltime NP203.

You mean, do the mods to the crossmember (read eliminate the stock crossmember) and then cover the TC with a skid plate instead of clocking it (which seems to be out of scale effort to do) ?

How could that be fabbed?

I think it should be very close to the TC, like 1/2" clearance to the TC using 3/8" steel plate and mount it to the frame directly so it acts as an additional crossmember?


Does anyone know what kind of metal the TC-adapter is made of? Cast steel?
I'm thinking of cutting of the part that bolts to the TC, clock it and weld the two parts together again from the outside and inside... and some plug welds from the TC flange side preferrably.

What do you think?

Are you just wanting to flatten the belly to stop it from being a mud shovel?

Personally I'd just swap to one of the more popular part time cases where you have more options besides custom machine work though that will require a transmission or tailshaft and tail housing swap.  Or if you have a need for lower gearing, you can keep the NP203 range box and add a NP205 behind it and use the doubler adaptor to clock the NP205 up though I don't know how easy it would be to find a NP205 assuming your location is correct and you are in Germany.

On the transmission mount bit, most just cut the stock mounts off and use the transfer case mount bolts to connect a custom fabricated mount to the transmission.  Whatever you do, do no succumb to the foolish trend people have of adding mounts on the sides of the transfer case in addition to the transmission mount.  The engine and transmission mounts are designed to allow the engine to rock back and forth and it pivots on the transmission mount.  By adding mounts to the transfer case, particularly in the case of a doubler setup, you are adding stress between the original transmission mount and the new transfer case mounts as the engine is still trying to pivot on the transmission mount in the middle of the chassis.  This stress almost always leads to a busted transfer case adaptor or broken case.

There are many K30 "CUCV" chevy pickups still in germany. They should have the correct 205 (behind TH400) that is desirable for the doubler.

Most CUCVs had the NP208.  I know that seems strange with the D60 and 14 bolt axles, but that's how most were built.  I believe the M1028A2 dually model CUCV had the NP205 as well as one other model of the "normal" single rear CUCVs.  Perhaps a shelter carrier or something similar.

Tilting the engine and transmission shouldn't cause any major problems though it will affect fluid levels as they are on the dipstick.  It may be wise to run a little extra fluid to keep things "normal" but you may have to experiment a little.  As long as you don't go too extreme with the tilt, I don't see any issues.  Keep in mind that altering the angle of the transmission also alters the U-joint angles and when raising the transfer case you will have to keep an eye on the rear shaft angles.

On the mount, I think I would just put in longer studs in the transfer case and add the mount to the "nut side" of the transmission tail housing to prevent any seal issues or spline engagement problems. 

I only mentioned the mount issues above because as soon as people look a a doubler setup, they start to get nervous about that NP205 hanging out in space like that and want to brace it somehow.  Even with rubber or urethane mounts, the extra pivot point can cause breakage.  IF I ever get around to doing a doubler setup, I will tie both mounts together so that they mount to the frame at a single point to preserve the stock "tripod" arrangement and prevent it from binding up and snapping the transmission tail housing, which seems to be the weak link.

It should also be noted that he used a doubler and clocked the NP205 with that.  I don't think he's going to have much luck with just the NP203.

Agreed, but with his location it may be more trouble that it's worth with trying to find a NP205, shipping on a $700 doubler kit, new driveshafts, shifters for the doubler, etc, etc.  Hell, I live here in the states and already have a couple NP205s and I can't justify the cost yet, lol.

Thanks for the replies guys! 

@bogie:
Looks like he rose the drivetrains rear end?! Did he ever run into any problems with vibrations or u-joints binding?
Besides the crossmembers sticking out from under the frame i like this!

@goatnard:
i've already found that page. Love the rear driveshaft (and the EFI, that's my christmas present for my truck, but pssst!)

As Elwenil found, there's a doubler too and i agree with joe and El: I'd rather go doubler than cut&weld the transmission adaptor. The 2:1 reduction is sufficient for now (4,10:1 axles + 9.50x16.5" tires, soon 235/85/R16 aka. 33").

@Elwenil:
I'd make new fluid level indicators on the dipsticks. I'd fill the engine and transmission up to the correct levels and then do the tilt. That should give perfect indicators for the new correct fluid levels.

Cr... i had one of those dually pickups + trailer in front of me at the last public gravel pit meet. My friends were already pulling jokes about driving the dodge on the trailer and having the chevy pull it home should've been the other way round.

If i stumble upon huge amounts of cash i'd have a NP205 and doubler kit shipped to my place, no problem with that (just takes the ship a month or month and a half to cross the big water). A lot easier, than finding a 205 over here...
It's just freaking expensive. Prices double themselves easily (1600$ incl. shipping for a rear disc brake kit that costs ~750$).