RamCharged81
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Now what??...... Looks like Plan B!
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« on: March 8, 2010, 10:55:22 PM » |
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Ok so here is what I have: Bad driveshaft vibration from lifting the RC. (confirmed by lowering the t-case and the noise went away). So my question is this: I have seen jeeps use the double cardon joints to take care of this driveshaft vibration. I have an old t-case and front drive shaft in the shed, so can I use the double joint off the front drive shaft and swap out the rear yoke with the circle mounting flange from the old t-case to make this work? Any other options at lowering the driveshaft angle or getting rid of the vibration? |
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340SHORTY
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« Reply #1 on: March 8, 2010, 10:57:12 PM » |
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yes it will work likw water falling off a ducks butt..
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81 Dodge D150 stepside shorty,340 6 pac
81 Dodge D 350 Crew Cab Sweptline dually, 360 4 bbl, np 435 trans
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EricY8s
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« Reply #2 on: March 8, 2010, 11:00:17 PM » |
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i recall seeing pictures of someone on this site doing that. i don't know if you would have to swap the flange though, there both fixed yokes so it might bolt right up (after some elongification  ) + it's fiscally responsible  |
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EricY8s
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« Reply #3 on: March 8, 2010, 11:03:51 PM » |
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yes it will work likw water falling off a ducks butt..
LOL, you ain't right! |
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Duffy
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« Reply #4 on: March 9, 2010, 12:06:29 AM » |
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I had a new driveshaft made up with a cardan at the transfercase after I lifted my RC. You'll have to change the yoke on the transfercase because the cardan joint is a different size than the standard small or big U-joint. If you do decide to get a new shaft made, have them put the slipshaft at the cardan up at the front. The reason I say this, is there is a vent hole for the slipshaft. And after you grease it, the grease will just run out as you drive causing the infamouse "clunk when stopping" to return soon after.
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89 RC 4x4, 2.5\\\" spring lift, 33\\\" tires, 3.90 gears<br />70 Newport Custom 54k miles, mint condition
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Elwenil
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« Reply #5 on: March 9, 2010, 12:07:33 AM » |
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I don't know if the flange will swap from front to rear on the NP208 or NP241. I know it will on a NP205 though. Keep in mind that in order to use a double cardan joint correctly, you are going to have to cut the perches off and rotate the axle up so that the pinion is inline with the new shaft or slightly below inline by only one or two degrees and then re-weld the perches.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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KThaxton
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« Reply #6 on: March 9, 2010, 12:10:44 AM » |
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I don't know if the flange will swap from front to rear on the NP208 or NP241. I know it will on a NP205 though. Keep in mind that in order to use a double cardan joint correctly, you are going to have to cut the perches off and rotate the axle up so that the pinion is inline with the new shaft or slightly below inline by only one or two degrees and then re-weld the perches.
I think Greg (Web Wheeler) verified that the flange would work....except I can't remember if he had a 208 or a 241. You could use tapered shims in the back instead of removing/rewelding the perches. |
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STOP PLATE TECTONICS! You're absolutely correct, Kendall. My mistake |
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Elwenil
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« Reply #7 on: March 9, 2010, 12:15:23 AM » |
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I don't think I would want to use shims for the amount that the axle will have to be rotated. The more shims, the more the axle is clocked out of alignment with the spring and the more chance it has of breaking something or spitting out a block, if equipped. By rotating the perch it's all kept in line and the U-bolts clamp straight down on it.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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340SHORTY
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« Reply #8 on: March 9, 2010, 01:20:41 AM » |
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I chatted with a guy at Tom Woods drivelines about this subject. H confirmed that a front flange from a 208 or 241 will interchange with the rear u joint yokes on the 208/241s...
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81 Dodge D150 stepside shorty,340 6 pac
81 Dodge D 350 Crew Cab Sweptline dually, 360 4 bbl, np 435 trans
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RamCharged81
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Now what??...... Looks like Plan B!
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« Reply #9 on: March 9, 2010, 02:40:41 PM » |
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Sounds like I have a plan then. I'll install the cardan joint on the rear, swap out the rear yoke with the front flange off my spare t-case, and get the diff pitched up. Hope this takes care of the vib, I never knew a driveshaft could make so much racket!
Thanks for the FAST replies.
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Ramcharger426
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« Reply #10 on: March 9, 2010, 04:27:06 PM » |
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I thought about purchasing a double cardon joint due to axle/drive shaft issues as well. However, one of the issues I had. The cap bolts that secure the u-joint were hitting the shaft when rotating. I took off the shaft and gridned the areas down. Reinstalled, which reduced a majority of the vibration. However not all of it. Rough Country supplied a 2.5 degree wedge with my 4" lift. During this time 1st and 2nd had some vibration. Some of the guys on RCC recomended shimming the rear end up more. Bought a 4 degree wedge, which iliminated vibration in 2nd but not 1st. Wound up installing a 6 degree wedge which made a difference. Word of caution. Make sure when purchasing a 4 or 6 degree wedge it is flat on both sides, not arced. This will cause your rear end rock back n forth. Thought I would pass this along, hope this info helps.
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Sam Simpson
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« Reply #11 on: March 9, 2010, 05:05:03 PM » |
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You don't have to swap flanges. You can take the flange off the cardon (I always call them cv joints), which leaves one part (two caps) of the ujoint exposed that will bolt up to the normal yoke on the axle or tcase yoke.
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Elwenil
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« Reply #12 on: March 9, 2010, 05:18:01 PM » |
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I don't think that will work. The joint in a Double Cardan is a Saginaw S-44 with a 1.125" diameter cap and a 2.563" measurement between the snap rings. The yoke you would be bolting it to is for a Detroit 7260 joint which has a 1.078" cap diameter and a 2.125" measurement between the caps. If the rear shaft originally used Detroit 7290 joints, it might be possible to force it since it uses the same 1.125" diameter cap but has a 2.625" measurement between the snap rings.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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« Reply #13 on: March 9, 2010, 05:23:33 PM » |
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You can replace the ujoint with a conversion joint ( made for two different yoke sizes ). They sell them at nearly every parts store and usually have them in stock.
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Elwenil
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« Reply #14 on: March 9, 2010, 05:40:25 PM » |
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There are three conversion joints I can find listed that are half S-44 and all of them are Spicer joints on the other half. The Spicer 1310, 1330, and 1350. That still will not work as all of the joints list are the wrong sizes and don't have snap ring grooves so they must be used in a Spicer yoke with either the outside snap ring or the numbs to hold the caps in.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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« Reply #15 on: March 9, 2010, 05:45:38 PM » |
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I have seen this done, but have no idea what joint they used. Like I said in the other post, I have never not been able to find a conversion joint, even on bastardized swaps. Took a good part number guy to cross ref stuff to find the correct one.
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Elwenil
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« Reply #16 on: March 9, 2010, 05:53:04 PM » |
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That's what I am doing, lol. I consider myself to be a decent "part number guy" and still have most of my catalogs here at home. Looking through the Precision catalog I can't find anything else other than what I have listed.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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« Reply #17 on: March 9, 2010, 05:54:30 PM » |
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You know I remember someone measuring shafts and stuff and was able to swap around the ends. Maybe that is how they did it?
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Elwenil
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« Reply #18 on: March 9, 2010, 06:01:43 PM » |
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Now that may be possible. A lot of joints from the same brand or manufacturer will have several joints of different styles that use the same machined diameter of the post of the cross. It would take a lot of experimentation with several joints in stock to get where you want to go with it. I've done it once while working at the local Federated store and it took some time to work out and a few special order joints we didn't stock. I usually put that out of my mind since the boss didn't care for me wasting so much time on a U-joint sale, lol.
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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« Reply #19 on: March 9, 2010, 06:18:57 PM » |
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I thought Smith92rc did that on his but I couldn't find it. I think they used a Jeep Cherokee shaft & it was almost the right length.
Jim
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1988 RC.the gold one pics1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!! 440 pics
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Elwenil
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« Reply #20 on: March 9, 2010, 06:29:15 PM » |
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I plan on doing it on mine eventually but I have to get another front NP205 flange as I'm going to keep the DC yokes as is for now for easy parts availability and to use the spares I already have on the truck. I kept the stock front shaft out of my Ramcharger when I took it out to make the eventual rear shaft out of. If I win the lottery I'll swap everything over to Tom Woods or High Angle Driveline 1350 DC shafts. |
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L.Clemons
1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts. Any job worth doing is worth doing right.
Lex Talionis
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4x4 440
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« Reply #21 on: March 9, 2010, 07:49:12 PM » |
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I have a double cardan joint on my rear shaft. It had a 7260 joint at the rear axle. I installed my 8" lift and Dana 70 axle. My Dodge axle had a 1410 series yoke. Talked to Jess at High Angle Driveline and ordered a new 1410 slip yoke. Fit perfectly with no cutting of the driveshaft. The double cardan, or CV, joint work great on the rear you have to make sure to point the pinion straight at the cardan joint, within a degree or two.
I think I still have the stock 7260 Dana yoke if you need it.
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1978 Ramcharger 440/727 with NP 203/205 doubler w/twinstick, Dana 60F and Dana 70 rear w/3.54:1 gears and an 8" lift. Puttin' out 450 HP at the crank, a little to mild. Now with Hydro Boost brakes.
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SuperBurban
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« Reply #22 on: March 9, 2010, 08:14:23 PM » |
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You know I remember someone measuring shafts and stuff and was able to swap around the ends. Maybe that is how they did it?
I used to have a catalog from one of the U-joint companies that actually listed what caps were swappable between joints. At the time, I thought it was a weird thing to have in a catalog, but years later I realized why, and have been looking for something similar since. I guess, the problem is that since the joints are made in batches, and in different factories, the bearing dimensions must vary too much. |
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workgoats
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« Reply #23 on: March 9, 2010, 08:42:29 PM » |
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I don't know if this will help any, but I used the drivetrain out of a 74 Bronco in a vehicle one time. It had a CV joint at the transfer because of the short wheelbase. I put a 9 1/4 in the back and pointed it at the transfer. Local shop made a driveshaft to meet both ends.
Also, my current truck has a bastard rear driveshaft. I have a 205 yoke in my 208 transfer. It required a little looking at NAPA and buying a seal based on measurements of the 205 yoke and the 208 case. It was that way when I bought the original truck. Someone else made this change, I suppose, for the heavier u-joint.
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Homemade body on a 1982 RC frame. 1989 TBI 360, 727/208, 3.90 gears, 1 extra spring at each corner, 33x12.5x15 Firestone MT's on 15x10 American Racing Baja wheels, trailer to match... RJ09, RJ10, General Sam's, Cline Ranch, Shiloh Ridge, Hidden Falls, Hogan's Off Road.
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EricY8s
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« Reply #24 on: March 9, 2010, 09:09:26 PM » |
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There is some juicy info on this channel!  |
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trailduster_78
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2010, 11:52:04 PM » |
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I thought Smith92rc did that on his but I couldn't find it. I think they used a Jeep Cherokee shaft & it was almost the right length.
Jim
This the one you're thinking of? I was just looking at this the other night. http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php/topic,92037.msg1238847.html#msg1238847 |
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1978 Plymouth Trailduster / Mild Rebuilt 360 / TF727 / NP203 / 6" Skyjacker / 35" Krawlers / AC -> OBA Conversion
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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2010, 03:45:00 AM » |
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Yup, That's the one!! Thanks for posting it!!
Jim
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1988 RC.the gold one pics1988 RC.440,4" lift,727 BIG BLOCKS RULE !!!!!!! 440 pics
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RamCharged81
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Now what??...... Looks like Plan B!
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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2010, 11:43:30 AM » |
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Right now, (to see if it eliminated the vibration...oh yea smooth and quite now!) I have the front drive shaft installed on the rear. Since it is there I was curious if this driveshaft was strong enough to use on the rear? I don't know what size of cv joint comes on the front...1310? Would I need a 1350 cv? I will have 33 inch tires with a 300hp motor, and it won't be used alot off road.
Additionally I already have a nice standard rebuild driveshaft that has a 3 inch tube. What size of cv would fit on that size of tube?
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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2010, 01:13:26 PM » |
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How do you have the front shaft installed on the rear? It is no where near long enough.
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85 R/C 367/manual v/b'd 727/208, 4.10's ,Modified 4 inch RCC lift, 3 inch body lift 52 inch springs up front HD 3/4 ton 52 inch springs out back. About 10 inches of lift 35x12.50R15 M/T Baja Claw Radials 15x10 Black Rockcrawlers Custom HD bumpers
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RamCharged81
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Now what??...... Looks like Plan B!
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« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2010, 01:16:35 PM » |
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I have the 518 tranny and D60 rear, so the distance from the t-case to the diff is real short compared to stock.
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Rambunctious86
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2010, 09:37:31 AM » |
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Mine is parts from a Ford rear shafta and flange and Dodge lower sections   |
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1986 Ramcharger, 4" Lift, 360, 727, 208, 60/14 w/ 4.56, 39.5's TSL, detroits. SEE IT |
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