Author Topic: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap  (Read 17025 times)

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2013, 08:05:13 AM »
Does anybody have dimensions on the clutch hose material that dodge used to connect master and slave?
I wonder if i can use it with a d-03 hose olive connecting fitting?
The d-03 PTFE hose i was looking at has an outer diameter of 1/4".

Loosing the need to make a whole new line saves money on the one hand and time on the other and makes this
easier to duplicate for everyone else.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2013, 08:42:08 AM »
I also found that some import master cylinders may also fit our requirements:

The Nissan Patrol Y61 has a 7/8" master cylinder, supposedly with a 3/8-24 fitting for the clutch hard line and the
Subaru Impreza also had a 7/8" mc, same fitting.
Both come with the reservoir attached, have a horizontal mounting flange and -  if pulled from a donor or you ordered one with it from ebay - comes with a pushrod and fork to attach it to the pedal.

This is for the 92-97 Ram 7/8" master to 1" slave setups, from 98 on they had 29/32" masters and 13/16" slaves.

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2013, 08:45:09 AM »
Lol, forget the Nissan mc... at least if you don't want to install a clutch booster:


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Offline ChrisKD

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2013, 10:33:02 AM »
I'll check, but I'm pretty sure the Mitsubishi Mighty Max/Dodge D50 Turbo Diesel Clutch Master Cylinder is also 7/8" and it mounts under the dash on those trucks, due to the lack of space at the firewall. The Master cylinder mounts to the cradle/bracket the brake & clutch pedal hang from, and the lines (to the slave and reservoir) go through the firewall.

That setup makes it great for converting mechanical linkage vehicles to hydraulic clutch.
76 Ramcharger 318/727/203
48 Dodge Pickup
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92 Dakota 5.2/518/231
84 PW50 273/727/100/203
74 Duster 6-71 Blown 340/833/D60
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73 Dart Sport 340/833/8.75
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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2013, 01:53:44 AM »
Chris,

are you sure this is a factory setup?
Rockauto lists 5/8", flange mounted (with the reservoir and mc hanging outside the cab), horizontal flange MCs for the Ram 50.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline blueduster

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2013, 08:09:25 AM »
So the bracket is bolted to the gas/brake pedal brackets. Interesting.  The old parts drawings at Dodge give no clue about that. I'll have to look for one. Finding late D/W manual tranny trucks in a junk yard is rare though.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 08:13:31 AM by blueduster »
1979 Ramcharger 360 Magnum w/Hughes HR0814 cam/1826 Edelbrock/M1 dp/NV4500/Dana300/4.56/4"lift/33s

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Offline ChrisKD

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2013, 12:09:16 AM »
Chris,

are you sure this is a factory setup?
Rockauto lists 5/8", flange mounted (with the reservoir and mc hanging outside the cab), horizontal flange MCs for the Ram 50.

Probably a display pic and info for a 2nd generation Ram 50. Most parts stores have the Master & Slave listing for a 1st Gen Diesel D50 screwed up (because they're so rare, in fact a few parts stores insisted my truck used a cable driven clutch  ::) ), I had to track down part numbers when I replaced the master cylinder on my truck.

 But in the end I went with a Mazda B-Series/2nd Gen D50 Master Cylinder because it was cheaper than the correct M/C. That was a PITA and a mistake, because the firewall wasn't designed to fit a 2nd Gen style Clutch Master Cylinder. I actually had to make a Z shaped pushrod, and had to weld a 2" wide extension to the side of the clutch pedal.
76 Ramcharger 318/727/203
48 Dodge Pickup
83 Scamp GT 2.2 Turbo AWD
92 Dakota 5.2/518/231
84 PW50 273/727/100/203
74 Duster 6-71 Blown 340/833/D60
73 Duster 340/727/8.75
73 Dart Sport 340/833/8.75
73 Dart Sport 340/727/8.75
71 Duster : Viper V10/6-Speed/8.75
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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2013, 03:42:39 AM »
I think i found a good cheap master cylinder for our application.
It's part no. TRW PNH708.161, fits 2001-2007 Mitsubishi Canter trucks.
7/8" bore, horizontal mounting flange and it comes with a pushrod and clevis.



It should have the common 3/8-24 brake fitting thread. I will find out in a few days, 'cos i ordered one.
I also ordered 6ft. of d-03 stainless braided PTFE hose, clutch fittings (unfortunately they come in pairs) and two 90° d-03 hose fittings.

I've also been informed that my transmission is on its way to Houston.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2013, 08:27:19 AM »
So i believe we have everything from connecting the engine to the transmission and connecting the transfer case
to the transmission until clutch actuation complete, right?

Ok, ok, it yet has to be confirmed the Mitsubishi mc is actually that usable with our trucks but let's say we're ready
to drop everything into the truck.

I now know that the NV4500 and bellhousing is roughly 2.1" longer than the NP445 + bellhousing and adapter.

From here on there's two ways of installing this setup into our trucks.

No. 1: Installing the transmission and altering the driveshafts

This is pretty much the easiest way of installing this setup into your truck. After everything is in there, you take
measurements from the center of the yokes on axle and transmission end and consult a company that alters or
builds drive shafts and modifies your existing or builds new ones to specification.

Maybe someone knows this: Would W250 drive shafts fit as a replacement?


No. 2: Moving the whole drivetrain

This route is a bit more involved and more work needs to be invested as the engine and transmission move forward
1.5" (i think the slip joints on the drive shafts can compensate for 0.6" easily).

As of now i think everything that needs modification is the fan spacer, radiator hoses, heater hoses and the exhaust, easy, right?
I wonder if that mod would corrupt the trucks handling...


In my truck the fan blades have about 1.2" distance to the radiator.
Since my trucks original radiator sprung a leak i am running the standard (M880s had the heavy duty radiator that air
conditioned trucks had) radiator on homegrown brackets.
On my truck the fan spacer is over 2" long plus 1.2" fan clearance to the radiator (which i don't plan to alter).
I think there's enough room on the engine crossmember to redrill the bolt holes 1.5" forward and duplicate the dimple that aligns the
rubber engine mount.


I'd like to read your thoughts and comments on the possible routes and how others did that before.

Thanks,
Alex

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2013, 08:56:22 AM »
You are going to need custom driveshafts.  There is no factory combination out there with the NV4500 and the NP203, both of which are a bit longer than the "standard" drivetrain we are used to seeing in both the '70s and '80s model trucks.  There may be shafts that exist that are the correct length for your application, but you are going to have to put it all together and measure it and then do a lot of hunting to find what you need.  I think moving the engine and transmission forward would be a huge pain since I don't think you would gain as much as you need and would also throw off everything else like the throttle cable, radiator hoses, etc.  When I did my big block install in my '74 W100, I had about 1" of clearance from the fan to the radiator and the fan would hit the radiator off road due to chassis flex.  I eventually went with a thicker 4 core style radiator and electric "pusher" fans.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2013, 10:03:49 AM »
trans mount modification, shifter linkage modification (t-case), shifter hole modification/ possible dash board or shifter modification (transmission), fuel line modification, engine mount modification, all electrical connections checked/modified (from chassis/firewall to engine), radiator hose modification, electric fan mod (possibly pusher fans), throttle cable modification (from pedal to linkage), oil pan clearance? or front cross member modification, exhaust system modification, and I am sure that I am forgetting something, since you will be using a custom hydraulic clutch system, and steering/brakes are not affected, no big deal right?

 but say you move the front cross member forward to limit hassle with the oil pan, now you have to adjust all of the hard lines to get them to sit properly, including the running of the front brake lines,

 personally, I would do the custom driveshaft route. might even cost less, due to the pricing of an electric fan set up, and all the miscellaneous parts, and labor time.
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Offline cragdweller

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »
Definately easier and better to modify your driveshafts.  Don't mess with your engine mounting location!
1975 Plymouth Trail Duster Sport.  440/727, 203/205 doubler, Dana 60 front and 70 rear.  Still under construction...

1977 Dodge Power Wagon W200 Crew Cab.  Next project.

2002 2500 Quad Cab Short Bed 4x4.  Cummins HO w/ NV5600 six speed.

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2013, 05:09:29 AM »
Had no time to check for oilpan clearance... and forgot to take the truck with me today  ::)
Particularly stupid because this monster came in today:



Huge pushrod and clevis! Enough room to lengthen the threads if needed and the horizontal ears allow fitting it to
the firewall easier.
Downside: ~1.5" diameter hole needed. My buddies truck is in the shop today, maybe i can check initial fitment on this truck.

Downside No.2: Threads are metric.
The MC pressure port is a metric M12x1.0, luckily there's fittings to adapt that to a dash-03 readily available.
The push rod thread is M8.

Added a different clevis (+ shanked bolt and bushing) and a boot. I had these in my parts collection.



Alex
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 07:29:14 AM by kingcrunch »

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2013, 10:02:46 AM »
Clutch actuation mockup-phase initiated.

The outside diameter of the master cylinder and the position of the pedal support dictate the position in which the clutch
master cylinder mounts. It needs to touch the left wall of the pedal support to gain enough clearance for the column bolt
and the speedo cable grommet.

Since i can not fit the whole mc in there, i wound an impact socket with painters tape until it had the correct diameter, then
stuck a pen through it and instantly had the position of the center of the MCs bore. I then wedged a center punch between
the clutch pedal and the firewall and pressed on it to transfer my center to the outside of the firewall.



See the bright area underneath the speedo cable grommet. The MC positions like this:




Since we have the MCs bore center on the firewall, we can then check for pushrod alignment and length. Mine seems like it
needs to be a little shorter but i did not yet try the clevis it came with.



Since we're bolting this to thin sheet metal, i think we need some kind of reinforcement, be it on the outside or the inside.
I think my support will install on the outside of the firewall and create a second bolt hole on the driver side and tie into the
steering column mount on the passenger side, thus the elongated lower hole (driver side 2nd hole not yet punched into the template).




I aim for crystal clear pedal feel and a clean, bomb proof install. This is stainless steel braided, d-03 PTFE hose and coated 90° fittings.
I am still waiting for the clutch quick disconnect adapters and the M12x1.0 to d-03 adapter to show up.


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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2013, 02:44:52 AM »
I got too curious if it would fit...



Seems like it does fit very well:









I messed up on the bolt hole in the clutch pedal, it needs upward relocation by ~1/2".


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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2013, 03:11:09 AM »
what kind of bracing is the firewall going to get?
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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2013, 03:23:52 AM »
I am thinking about a reeinforcement plate that ties into the column foot bolt and adds a fourth bolt above the
driver side mc bolt. But the design is not finished yet.

I must say during cutting the hole i was really worried if it would fit but now to me it looks like that mc was made for
this truck.
All that's left to do is replacing that cast in "NISSIN" brand name with "MoPar" and a part no. ;)

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #67 on: July 7, 2013, 10:01:23 AM »
Missing M10x1 to D-03 and the clutch slave cylinder fittings came in.

With the added weight of the massive NP203 hanging on the aluminum tailhousing of the NV4500 i wonder if i should go
for something stronger?

Cast iron tailhousings are available at a reasonable price but do i need one?

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #68 on: July 7, 2013, 01:51:59 PM »
that is one of the reasons some companies did a rear mount for the t-cases in the mid 70s, think ears, or a half moon that mounts to the output flange then to the frame rails.
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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #69 on: July 7, 2013, 03:18:24 PM »
Adding extra mounts is what causes broken adaptors and housings.  If it needs more support, I would build a cradle or subframe to support the case and transmission and then still retain the original single mounting point to preserve the tripod arrangement.  In my opinion, it will probably be find.  The 727 adaptors of the NP203 era were not very robust and a bit longer than a NV4500 adaptor and did just fine in most cases.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2013, 09:15:38 AM »
You guys know what this is and what it's arrival means to my free time, do you ;D



Moved it into the shop today and will start tearing it down partially for a visual inspection this week.
Just need to get me the darn 12-point socket for the 5th gear housing.




This is the factory clutch slave cylinder with the clutch adapter fitting and a 90° d-03 elbow already installed.
The adapter needed a wee bit of filing to fit into the cylinder but it took longer to write this than to mod the fitting. I am glad to announce that the reservoir fits the Mitsubishi clutch master cylinder nicely.
It seems to me the Mitsu cylinder is one of the "must get" parts for this conversion.



I like that all of these factory parts are made by AP.


Expect progress on this conversion how-to soon!

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline USAF85W350

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2013, 11:42:45 AM »
I am following this project closely. Maybe you can fabricate and market an NV 4500 to NP203 adaptor.  :)

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2013, 04:07:27 AM »
No adaptor needed for this one, the face of the NP203 needs redrilling and studding and that's about it.

But i could make up a drill pattern and publish it so this mod becomes a little more popular.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
Dug into the trans today, just a few quick pics for you to verify that what i am seeing is actually a good trans:






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Offline USAF85W350

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2013, 11:39:47 AM »
 So that is a gas engine NV4500 that was in front of an NP 205, or was it in front of an NP 241? Obviously the spline count will be the same as the NP203.

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2013, 12:27:00 PM »
Looks like a good NV4500.  Better fix that 5th gear nut while you have it apart.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Auribus Tenere Lupum

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2013, 02:03:13 AM »
So that is a gas engine NV4500 that was in front of an NP 205, or was it in front of an NP 241? Obviously the spline count will be the same as the NP203.

It came out of a '92 5.2 W250 with the 241. The spline count should match the NP203.

Looks like a good NV4500.  Better fix that 5th gear nut while you have it apart.

There's several ways to do that, which one would you recommend?

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2013, 05:53:09 AM »
Anything but Mopar's set screw fix.  That doesn't tend to work as a long term solution and I'd probably tack weld it before I used Mopar's idea.  There are a lot of other designs that use a collar to lock the nut that work much better.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Auribus Tenere Lupum

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2013, 05:13:14 AM »
I think the best quick fix is this "socket" here:



The only permanent fix would be a new mainshaft... but since this is a gasser with less than factory HP and it will never tow heavy equipment or cars in 5th gear, i wonder if i need either the quick fix or the mainshaft at all  ???

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2013, 11:15:30 AM »
Considering that if it backs off it usually destroys the mainshaft, I'd do the socket fix.  It's cheap insurance in the long run.
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

Auribus Tenere Lupum

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2013, 07:00:40 AM »
The socket it is then. There's only these two nice ways to fix it.

I found a defective reverse lights switch and the splines on the input shaft seem loose to me.
For good measure i am also replacing the input shaft seal in the retainer.

I noticed there was a very fine layer of a transparent kind of sealer between the 5th gear housing and the housing.
The same transparent sealer could also be found between the retainer and the housing.
It could be scraped off like a piece of thin film.


As assembly isn't far away, what are my options to reseal these areas?
Should i apply a very thing layer of sealer and bolt the parts on and torque to spec?

Alex

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2013, 08:23:35 AM »
I figured i can seal these up with a thin coat of sealer and just bolt down the input bearing retainer and the top cover.

I used Hylomar, which is think is a German product. The nice thing about that stuff is, that it stays plyable forever.
I am reusing a diy thermostat gasket i coated with Hylomar for the third time now, no leaks so far.


Here's another object of interest in a NV4500 swap that retains the NP203.

The NV4500 + gas engine bellhousing is ~45mm = 1.77" longer than the TF727 automatic or NP435/445 manual transmission.

Not only does that require modification of the trans tunnel, the drive shafts, the transmission crossmember but also the transfer case shift mechanism.


To adapt the NP203 transfer case shifter to a NV4500 4WD tailhousing some fabrication and modification is needed.
Don't worry, it can be done with very simple tools such as:

- angle grinder
- large hammer
- an electric drill
- welding machine

As a starting point, cut the bracket:




Then shorten the small upper arm of the piece you just parted off and cut two areas underneath the arm and the lower edge as shown:



Note: The outside of the bracket is approximately 6.7" from the centerline of the output shaft.


One note on the lower bolt hole:
There is a bent over lip (that's responsible for the rounded edge next to the hole) that needs to be hammered flat.
This will give you enough room for a second hole that needs to be drilled ~0.47" from the center of the first hole.

I am not giving you any really acurate measurements to do this because the tailhousing is a cast piece of aluminum and it can vary a bit.
You will have to find your own hole centers for drilling.

Here's how that fits around the reinforcing ribs of the tailhousing:




Next step is to cut a 1.77" x 6.5" strip of 0.15" thick metal plate for the filler that goes in here:




This is part ONE

I am working on part two which involves drilling the holes, aligning the plate and welding.
Part three will show a way to cope with the slightly angled cast surface of the tailhousing.

Stay tuned!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:36:20 AM by kingcrunch »

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #82 on: September 3, 2013, 03:37:02 AM »
Part Two of the transfer case shifter mods

Take a large hammer and flatten the bent area of the tailhousing part of the tcase shifter bracket:





In this picture the mounting bolt holes are already drilled into the bracket. As a guideline you want the lower
hole at the same height (from the top of the bracket) as the existing hole.

When you got the 3/8" bolt holes where you want them, clamp down the parts so you can tack weld them to check for goog alignment:





Bolt it onto the transmission tailhousing and take your time checking all your measurements.



I noticed this setup was prone to vibrating a lot. Smack it and it would wiggle back and forth for a minute or two.
BAD! What does usually help against excessive wiggling? More brackets.



It bolts to the top lid.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #83 on: September 3, 2013, 04:04:00 AM »
Part Three of the transfer case shifter mods


If you take a close look at the tailhousing of a NV4500 you will notice the inside (where the bolt heads sit) has a slight angle
to it. When you align your tcase shifter mechanism parallel to that angle, the shift mechanism will not sit in parallel with the
transmission housing. That probably does not pose a problem in the real world but i want it to be at least parallel to the eye.

Here's how i handled that problem:

I slid two pieces of 0.04" sheet metal underneath the outer circumference of the thick washers (these came off the original tcase shifter bracket) until they hit the bolt.
Once i had them in position i snugged everything down and checked if i like what i see.



Turns out they were pretty much dead on and i could continue with tearing everything apart, clamping the shims and the washers in place and welding everything up.

In this pic you can see the gap between the welded washer and the bracket.




Last step is to verify all measurements and finally weld all the parts.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

Soon: 5-spd NV-45000 swap & factory AC!

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #84 on: September 4, 2013, 02:33:14 AM »
No comments on my botched shifter alignment ? ;D

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #85 on: September 4, 2013, 10:47:22 AM »
is it that far off?
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Offline ToxicDoc

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #86 on: September 4, 2013, 11:01:22 AM »
I don't know enough about the topic to comment but it sure looks nice.
'85 W150 SB, 408 stroker, Magnum manifolds, Performer RPM, 670 Truck Avenger, HEI ignition, Auburn LSD 9.25 and '82 D44 (non-CAD) with 3.55/3.54,  NV4500/NP241

Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #87 on: September 4, 2013, 02:22:21 PM »
is it that far off?

I could not verify my measurements today but i sure hope it's not. Wish me luck!

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline Mike Barf

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #88 on: September 4, 2013, 05:46:02 PM »
luck
88 RC, 360 auto 4x4 stock

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Offline comrade cheddar

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #89 on: September 4, 2013, 07:14:39 PM »
luck

X2
  I don't believe that bolt hole on the cover exists on the 1994 and newer NV4500 because the transfer case shifter is on the opposite side. (Just something for others to be aware of on future projects) .
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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92 w250 360 TBI nv4500 FED Prison truck
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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #90 on: September 5, 2013, 02:04:06 AM »
In this case you could easily use one of the lid bolts with a thinner bracket.
All it does is prevent excess vibrations.

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #91 on: September 5, 2013, 07:09:11 AM »
I am off by 0.2". Longitudinally.
And pretty much where i wanted to be diagonally. WIN! Yay, welding! ;D

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Offline blueduster

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #92 on: September 5, 2013, 09:19:10 AM »
Also if you use a later nv4500 like I did, advanced adapters sells a bracket that uses the top cover bolts to mount a shifter. It works for the 205 and 241, I imagine it could with the 203 shifter.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 05:04:56 PM by blueduster »
1979 Ramcharger 360 Magnum w/Hughes HR0814 cam/1826 Edelbrock/M1 dp/NV4500/Dana300/4.56/4"lift/33s

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #93 on: September 5, 2013, 10:01:03 AM »
Also if you use a later nv4500 like I did, advanced adapters sells a beaker that uses the top cover bolts to mount a shifter. It works for the 205 and 241, I imagine it could with the 203 shifter.

You might be able to mount an NP203 shift mechanism to this bracket but you'd have to verify the factory
shifter position is retained, otherwise extensive mods to the trans tunnel are mandatory.

I don't yet know how i am going to deal with the big cutout i have in there for the NP445. I have a rusty spare trans tunnel
i might cut up for patches, close the hole for the NP445 shifter and cut a new one for the NV4500 shifter, boot and bezel.

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2013, 07:24:36 AM »
Little progress:



You need at least 55mm or 2.16" clearance between the top of the lid and the top of the panel in front of the windshield for the hood not to hit the container.

Also welded the tcase shifter bracket but these welds are nothing to brag about...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 07:30:39 AM by kingcrunch »

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Offline Elwenil

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2013, 11:52:22 AM »
Other than the AN fitting, it looks pretty stock.  {cool}
L.Clemons

1988 Ramcharger-Mil-Spec AW450 Project-318EFI-NP435 4 speed-NP205 Transfer Case-Front & Rear Dana 60s-Braden Wormdrive Front Winch
I do not like shortcuts.  Any job worth doing is worth doing right.

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2013, 07:42:15 AM »
@El:
I am thinking wether i should remove the blue anodizing and leave it a bare finish  8)
But on the other hand, the braided steel line will give away that something is not that close to factory there  ;D


Sheduled progress:
Today i am going to measure for new crossmember bolt holes.
Major measurement in this case is the distance from the bellhousing (to block) face to the center of the mounting pad holes on the transmission.

I am still trying to think of a way to keep the frames original holes and just mod the bracket that mounts the trans to the crossmember on the '92.

That would keep me from drilling 12 3/4" holes  8)

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2013, 09:48:01 AM »
The difference is too much  :( The mounting pad of the NV4500 sits 1.96" further back than the pad on the TF727/NP435/NP445.

There's no other easy way but drilling new holes into the frame.






Please note that the bolt holes in the crossmember do not run in parallel to its outer edge.



Put it on there in the correct orientation when shooting for new holes...

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline kingcrunch

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2013, 04:52:02 AM »
Due to a lot of workload not very much progress in this part of the project truck.
The plan is to flip the frame again in the next week and get this all done in November so i can renew technical inspections (and hopefully pass with the EZ-EFI installed) and drive it with a 5spd through winter  ;D

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1976 W200/M880 ex mil. 318/NV4500/NP203/D44/D60/EZ-EFI/HEI

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Offline blueduster

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Re: Dodge NV4500 to Dodge NP203 adaption - the 5 speed swap
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2013, 10:51:30 AM »
Sorry I didn't see this earlier.  I had a L bracket made out of 3/16 plate welded to the plate that is sandwiched in the mount bushings. Drilled the two holes for the 4500 mount and that was it.
1979 Ramcharger 360 Magnum w/Hughes HR0814 cam/1826 Edelbrock/M1 dp/NV4500/Dana300/4.56/4"lift/33s

“Courage is not having the strength to go on; it is going on when you don't have the strength.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

 

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