Author Topic: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build  (Read 2053 times)

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Offline 84Ram318

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1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« on: October 14, 2012, 08:13:12 PM »
Hello everyone. I just started another thread in the help section on some problems I'm having with my Ramcharger and I figured that I'd ask a different question here. I am new to Dodge. I just bought my 1984 Ramcharger 150 LE Royal today and I'm already thinking about what I can do to make my Dodge more enjoyable to drive. First of all, it's a bone stock 318 with a Carter Thermo Quad 4 bbl on it. It only has 107,000 miles on it and I am the second owner. It's been in PA it's whole life and of course it has some pretty serious rust issues with the body that I plan to address with some new sheet metal and my handy mig welder. Just to let everyone know, my name is Robert and I am a 29 year old father of 2 boys. I'm a amateur mechanic and engine builder. I've mostly built 4 cylinders so bear with me as I've never built a V8, let alone a carb'd engine. I don't know jack shit when it comes to carbs.
First of all, my engine is very healthy and runs great. My first question is about what I've heard. I was told by a friend that has an old Ram that my Ramcharger has a Lean Burn system. First of all, what is this and what does it do? Also, it has a factory choke on it that doesn't seem to work. I installed a manual choke on it but I only put this in as a backup until I can figure out how to get the factory unit to function properly. Also, I know the ThermoQuad was available on the 318 for many years but was it available on the 84 originally or did someone swap it onto mine?
Another thing, I want to start performing some mods to my 318. I'm not expecting a miracle horsepower rating, but some extra oomph would be greatly appreciated. I am planning to find some light headers and install a true dual exhaust with Borla mufflers in the near future after I get some of this sheet metal replaced and get some paint on the truck. Also, I have a grinder and a 60 gallon air compressor so I believe I am going to be gasket matching the heads and replacing the intake manifold and carb as well.
Basically, I want to find a good place to start and was wondering where everyone with experience with this engine would recommend me to start. Any help would be appreciated guys. I'm in the dark when it comes to Dodge and this engine. I know they are extremely choked by emissions bullshit so I don't expect a hot rod out of this particular engine. BTW, what exactly makes them so choked up? Is it just the design of the heads and combustion chambers? Is it the CR? Is it a combination of both? I'm just curious as to where to start with my project.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 08:20:47 PM »
Are there any heads that flow better or have better shaped combustion chambers from another year of 318 that will swap right onto my 1984 318? Are there any top end swaps that I can do to yield more HP? Will 360 heads fit this motor? I'm just looking for cheap and easy HP. Even if it's just 15-30HP. Thanks guys, sorry for the newbie questions.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 08:30:09 PM »
Whoa whoa easy on the dremel and assumption of choked up parts.


While it appears to be bogged down in emission "junk" there isnt really any thing there that would rob significant power or gain significant power if it was removed.

That cat is about the only emission device taking power.

The smog pump takes 2hp or so to turn. The egr isnt in play at WOT. The air cleaner opens once warmed up. Thats about the extent of the emission system.

The heads arent a choke point, they are same as used on most 360s.

The intake is a great piece. The carb flows more than the engine will ever use.

The vehicle is compression limited, but also gear limited in an attempt to meet cafe standards.

Those 2 parts are the only that are really holding you back.

The ignition may benefit from a timing tune but its nothing major.

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 08:50:02 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply Captain Obvious. (Love your name by the way) It's a usual response when I ask questions about more power, using the dremel tool I mean. I understand that the rear end gears are holding me back. What would you recommend going with? I understand that stock gears are a 3:20 something, what would you recommend for power/fuel economy? Basically, better response balanced with fuel economy. My 74 Camaro had 4:11s in it when I bought it and it would redline at 95 MPH. I swapped those for a set of 3:73s and it was like night and day. Like I said buddy, I am just playing around in my garage and I want a combination of power/response and my 318 seems pretty peppy for what it is. I was looking around on Summit Racing's site and I found a set of Hooker Headers and a Weiand intake manifold that I'd like to swap in there. Any recommendations for a carb or should I stick with the stock unit? This ThermoQuad seems like it's more than the engine will need with the combination of parts that I plan to bolt to it, (as you said). I just plan to get a little more power out of this engine. Gears, headers, a good sounding exhaust, an intake manifold, and a good tune up is really all I plan to do to it. I love the fact that it's a small block and I've always loved the small engine/decent performance equation. Like I said bud, just looking for some ideas from some seasoned vets.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline 85 Royal SE Prospector

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 09:03:14 PM »
Take some pictures of the carb, distributor, and fenders/firewall and post them here. Even on original lean burn vehicles it is too difficult to tell that it is to assume so. Even worse, you need to make sure everything's connected and somebody didn't just pop a module in the distributor, because that is certainly possible.

Lean burn is Chrysler's "feedback" system. Chrysler and GM used it on many carbed vehicles in the late '70s/'80s, Ford transitioned fairly quickly from non-feedback systems to operable fuel injection, feedback was the in-between many car makers got stuck in through the '80s.

'84 318s were available with a 4bbl package that included 360 heads and intakes. Not all '84 318s were 4bbl motors though. The 4bbl motors have 8.2-8.0:1 compression. The intake's actually very good. The choke's issues if it isn't seized may be that the intake manifold choke-heat passages are clogged with dirt and debris- you'd be able to see with the intake off. These old motors may have flat tappet cams which may be worn- if so, best thing is just to get a decent core new RV cam/lifters to go in it, that will actually help performance some.

The carb is fairly complex to tune and if damaged is difficult to replace. If it's functional and performing decently with a free and clear choke, it may be a very good way to run the motor. If not, an adapter would allow a squarebore carb to mount up, but it could be complicated to retain cruise control if it works.

The relatively tall transmission/axle gears slightly hurt the acceleration compared to newer vehicles.

Choked up isn't exactly the issue at hand. It's untapped potential, and whatever power is present is focused on torque. They really don't lack in torque compared to almost any motor you can have in a vehicle.

Honestly, as long as you use good metal gaskets the headers would be a pretty decent idea. Current HP is likely around 160-180.

Stealth, Performer RPM, or something of that nature would be a decent intake to swap to. It'd make the stock HP with 30 less lbs. Just make sure it will allow the A/C compressor to bolt on if so equipped, and I think those won't.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 09:04:53 PM by 85 Royal SE Prospector »
1985 Dodge Royal SE Prospector Ramcharger 318 4x4

Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 09:07:39 PM »
The top end is good as is, and often out performs many aftermarket pieces. Intake included.

Dodge is built different.


Gears depend on tire height, and 2400-2600 @ 60-65mph is often a good target formula to aim for.


Stock hp is 155ish and seemingly fairly accurate.

Offline USAF85W350

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 09:37:39 PM »
 Swap the axle gears for a set of 3.91's. They will be perfect for running with 31" tires. You can add a sure grip limited slip unit while you are doing that, if the truck does not currently have one.

Offline MT_84Ram

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 09:45:09 PM »
Are you sure it is a 318 and not a 360?
Probably is not a lean burn.
TQ is excellent carb for power and mpg if in good shape and adj. right - small primaries give good mpg but you can about watch the gas gauge drop when you open up the secondaries.  There is good info here on TQs and others sites as well.
You can spend a lot of money and gain little - I would leave as is since you say runs healthy and strong.  RC are not quick, they are too heavy.  See my sig for mine - run stock 235/75 -15 and the 3:55 are a little low if you want mpg at highway speeds - gears depend on your intended use.  4x4?  Think many will say a single 3" exhaust is better for low speed 4x4ing. 
84 RC 4x4 360 auto 3.55 Prospector III, Royal SE

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 10:02:08 PM »
Honestly guys, I will probably never really take this thing offroad. It will be a tarmac only vehicle. I just want a little better acceleration, I'm not worried about top speed.

The emissions label under the hood says that it's a 5.2L and yes, it's a 4x4. It's running 31" tires and really old aftermarket wheels. Really, I will probably take the top end apart and clean everything, paint it, and put new gaskets on everything just to play it safe. It is running well, but it has a really hard time starting unless I pour some gas in the carb first, even with the manual choke cable that I installed. To install it, I had to remove the small arm for the diaphragm that sits under the carb on the passenger side of the engine.

To be perfectly honest with you guys, I was just looking for some small performance mods that I can add to this engine to make it perform better. Airflow is what I am looking for. I plan to add some headers, dual 2.5" exhaust pipes, a cam, a high flow air filter, and that's about it. Maybe, if I decide to replace the head gaskets, a very light port and polish. Would there be any benefits of shaving the heads at all to increase the compression ratio? I honestly don't know shit about these Dodge motors, that's why I'm asking. Every other car that I've ever asked about cheap performance mods I get told that I need to port and polish everything, replace the throttle body, change ECUs, swap heads to a different engine model, and things like that. But from what you're telling me, these engines are pretty stout from the get.

Taking what you guys have told me so far, I plan to keep the TQ and the stock intake manifold and just swap to headers and put a different cam in it. Any recommendations for cam? Like I said, you guys are helping me out considerably. I'm just looking for advice.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2012, 10:03:37 PM »
By the way, I live in Beaver County Pennsylvania, (near Pittsburgh), and we have to pass a tailpipe emissions test here. So I'm trying to keep that in mind when I'm swapping parts.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline 85 Royal SE Prospector

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2012, 10:22:04 PM »
Shaving the heads would hold more gain than a port and polish. The porting may actually hurt the compression a bit from adding CCs to the bowls.

If you decide to change cam, something in the 250-260 advertised range with .410-.450 lift, springs may need to change too. Yours may actually be around .410 right now with the 4bbl, the 2s were .373.

I'd say you've got a plan pretty well together- not to do much. Especially trying to pass emissions.
1985 Dodge Royal SE Prospector Ramcharger 318 4x4

Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2012, 10:24:19 PM »
The cam is going to hurt your bottom end acceleration.

By keeping the valves open longer, more of the precious compression leaks out the exhaust or is blown back through the intake. Something you cant afford when you only have 8:1 to start with.

This engine has pretty much all the air flow it can use. Big factory carb, valves, ports, and intake.

It just doesnt have enough "squeeze" to extract the power. That was chryslers way of lowering nox emissions.

Needs more squeeze and more torque multiplication so the engine can quicker get up into its main power band.

At first the cam and headers will "sound" more powerful, but it wont take long to realize the stop watch still reads the same.

Compression is holding the engine back by atleast 40hp+

Offline 340SHORTY

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 02:40:16 AM »
Your best bang for your buck is better gearing..
Your truck info goes here...

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 02:21:11 PM »
Well guys, I stand corrected... Last night, I took the truck down to the car wash down the street from my house and doused the engine bay and underneath with two cans of heavy duty engine degreaser. The oil pan, the trans, the trans case, and the entire front cradle was caked with about a 1/4" of grime and grease. I soaked it in the degreaser and let it sit for about 5 minutes and then pressure sprayed it for a good ten minutes. I cleaned the whole thing. This morning I was finally able to read the emissions label under the hood and saw that magic little number...5.9L. My baby has a 360! As well as a 727! I wondered why it felt so powerful for a 318. I want to apologize because I'm not usually this retarded. I love cars and I have been working on them since I was 8 years old.

Anyway, now that I know without the shadow of a doubt what I'm working with, I am trying to go for a set of 360 magnum heads, headers, a mild cam, an air gap intake manifold, rebuild the stock carb, paint everything, a new air filter housing, and possibly an upgraded ignition. I found a set of 360 Magnum heads at a local junkyard for $200 and it includes the entire valvetrain. I've been reading around and it looks like I'll need a few things before I try to tackle this though. AMC lifters, hollow pushrods, new head bolts, intake manifold, valve covers, and some miscellaneous other things. I'm just hoping to make a decent engine out of what's in there. I've never got the chance to get my hands dirty on a V8 OHV, but I am anxious to get started. I went to the Diesel Institute of America so I know what I'm doing with it. I just need some guidance.
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline minionsram

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 03:37:44 PM »
If you are sure that its the original engine, that's cool!  To be 100% sure look on the side of your block near your starter. The block is stamped with the CI on the side. ;)
In a dramatic turn of events, Kendall agrees with Pete......mostly:P

1990 Ramcharger Still in works 
1989 Ramcharger 318 241 auto
1985 w350 360 208 Longbed
2001 Dodge ram 1500  5speed
1986

Offline 85 Royal SE Prospector

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 06:40:17 PM »
Only the short block's different between an '84 360 and 318 4bbl, so it's a very easy mistake to make. Easier to read at the driver's side front of the block under the head.
1985 Dodge Royal SE Prospector Ramcharger 318 4x4

Offline MT_84Ram

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 07:23:08 PM »
Re-build that TQ before you get too carried away with choke.  They have a couple seals under the venturi tube pickups that will leak and drain the float bowl causing hard starting when warm, from flooding, and when cold as the bowl must fill before there is any fuel.  I could smell raw gas after turning mine off when mine went bad. 

After putting kit in my TQ I also installed MSD6a ignition system w/ best MSD wires and the epoxy Blaster coil, NGK v-groove plugs and good quality brass rotor and cap.  I did both on same weekend so don't know which had most impact but that 360 perked right up - much more responsive.  I know your itching to tear into that 360 but if you have 3:21 gears(?) and run 31s you'll probably be better served by re-gearing.
84 RC 4x4 360 auto 3.55 Prospector III, Royal SE

Offline skajm

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 08:49:38 PM »
Your 84 should only need a gas cap check and visual inspection. No two speed or dyno needed.
1984 RC 318/727 4bbl
2002 1500 5.9l quadcab 4wd sport
69 Superbee 383

Offline 84Ram318

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 08:51:18 PM »
Thanks MT. How tough is it to rebuild a TQ? It will be the first large carb that I've ever tore into. I was hoping to take the intake manifold, carb, and valve covers off to sandblast and repaint them anyway so this would be like killing three birds with one stone. As far as I understand, the carb has never been touched before I installed the manual choke cable on it. What are the major components that I need to replace in it? I'm going to do a basic tune up on it while I have those parts off. Do you know if there are any write ups on the rebuilding process?
1984 Ramcharger LE Royal 150 - 360 - 5.9L A727  1992 Cadillac Eldorado - 4.9L 300 - 4T80E (DD)  2006 Pontiac Vibe - 1.8L DOHC (Family Car, Jap Scrap)

"Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline Captain Obvious

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 09:02:30 PM »
Youtube has several rebuild videos when using search word "thermoquad"

Offline MT_84Ram

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 10:39:29 PM »
I use Bing - search carter thermo-quad - endless info.  Look for ID tag on your carb and you'll have exact model number.  You need basic rebuild kit, they have good instuctions and pics - read over several times until you really understand.  Not hard to rebuild, just need to be meticulous, gentle, and clean - backspray all passages and ports with carb cleaner. Float level adjustment important and can only be done when apart.
84 RC 4x4 360 auto 3.55 Prospector III, Royal SE

Offline MT_84Ram

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 10:56:01 PM »
Remembered - idle mixture screws will probably be blocked off with like a tiny soft plug - I drilled a small hole through them and then used a pick to pop off/out exposing the screws.  Another part of emissions, they didn't want you adjusting idle mixture to richer settings
84 RC 4x4 360 auto 3.55 Prospector III, Royal SE

Offline SShxn

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 02:01:57 PM »
Are there any heads that flow better or have better shaped combustion chambers from another year of 318 that will swap right onto my 1984 318? Are there any top end swaps that I can do to yield more HP? Will 360 heads fit this motor? I'm just looking for cheap and easy HP. Even if it's just 15-30HP. Thanks guys, sorry for the newbie questions.


I would stay away from the 360 heads on a stock 318 block. #302's would be a good direct swap. Magnums would be good too, just a little more involved.

On my '84 I went w/
#302 heads
edelbrock performer
edel 600
summit #6900 cam
headers
re-wired to standard electronic ignition
'84 W150 318
'77 Aspen (Current Project)
'91 Mustang LX 5.0
'05 Neon SXT
'94 Ram 1500

Offline jerseybud

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 07:48:14 PM »
Congrats on the 360. I guess 200 isn't bad if it includes the covers, pushrods and rockers....Beware of cracks.  Also know Hughes and others sell the aftermarket heads new which are supposed to be fantastic, w/o the cracks.

I agree with everything- unless you drive it in winter.  If so, that air gap will make it a cold blooded monster b/c of poor atomization, carb icing (even with the TQ), etc.....I'll bet you could get a cheap (er) M1 on ebay

CO is right.  The compression is a real bummer.  Car Craft did a dyno test on a 440 about 10 years ago where they dynoed it a 8:1, 9:1 10:1 and 11:1 and it gained on average 15 hp at every increment.  I forget what the torque gain was....
A 9:5:1 quench motor with the right cam/overlap would be awesome.  CC did that too on a 318 and got 400 hp with magnum heads

1988 W-100 318/NP-435/241/3.23 171,000 miles
1992 W-250 318/NV4500/241/4.10-160,000 miles
1993 W-250 club cab CTD i/c 618/3.54- 293,000 miles!

Offline 85 Royal SE Prospector

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2012, 09:50:53 PM »
With everything $200 isn't bad, kinda high JY price though.

If what you have is cracked, it should be able to donate a ton to some new bare castings with the LA bolt pattern.

You got the right idea, they flow a bit better and have a lot more squeeze stock. The stock Mags are about 62cc versus your smog heads 68-74cc, more likely 70-72cc. So you can bump up the compression without sacrificing flow like the 302 heads.

Magnums don't have heat crossovers. So you can't run an automatic choke Thermoquad without converting it to electric or manual. Some company in Cali had a divorced electric choke kit for a Thermoquad.
1985 Dodge Royal SE Prospector Ramcharger 318 4x4

Offline minnesota guy

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Re: 1984 Ramcharger 318 4bbl Build
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2012, 09:52:00 AM »
 ;)