are my axles out yet?

We puttin those in this weekend?

thats was nice of you! swing them by the shop tommorow.thanks!

lol,im jonesing for my axles.

hey m2
im sure you know buy now but the np205 you got off that trans is a 23 spline small bearing input shaft. the ord kit requires you to use the large bearing 32 spline short shaft found in the 205 form the turbo400.  you will have to have the bearing seat bored out in the tcase to fit the bigger shaft bearing
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/NP205tech.htm

       m3

Another thread to be hooked to.  I thought we were done after Moab this last fall.
I had similar issues with my hydrosteer ram.  I got the remote reservior kit from PSC and mounted it between my radiator and my batteries in my CTD.  It works great!

I will admit I had more than enough power with my 1ton on HR with the CTD.  I am pushing around the same power levels as your tow rig.  I noticed that there were a few times that the 518 would have been a bit more convenient than the Getrag.

I am casting very interested eyes on this project as I am looking at an RC to build and I have bunches of spare parts from my donor truck CTD.  I am very interested to see how the ORD doubler kit works out.

On springs, I looked at Deavers, but was told that KORE was the exclusive Dodge distibutor and they didn't care about 1st gens and han nothing available for us.   (Maybe someone can prove that wrong) 
Alcan spring in Grand Junction is also very well known and thought of.  I priced some stuff there and found them reasonable and very knowlegable.  http://www.alcanspring.com/

Great project!  I look forward to seeing it again.


Ken

One thing that has me 'thinking'...is batteries.  I'm hoping my Optima Orbital battery(s) will start the Cummins on those cold days...and the warm ones too  .  I'm wondering if there is a 'mini starter' for a CTD like the newer gassers have...not even sure if it'll be a problem, but 17.5-to-1 compression is a lot for a 'regular' car battery to spin....

I was having occasional slow starts with one optima on my CTD so I got another and put them in parallel.  Spins quick, no problems. 
I decided to wire my batteries independent with a charge controller so I could run accessories (winch, lights, radio, inverter, etc) and completely drain one of the batteries and have the other to start from in the morning.  I just used one of the standard dual battery charge controllers. I then used a continuous duty solonoid with a switch on the dash to connect the two batteries if I need more juice on those cold mornings.  The only issue is that if I completely drain my deep cycle optima and then flip the switch on my relay to connect the two, things might get a little warm.

In a nutshell, I wouldn't worry about the 2 optima batteries not being enough.  I have even just been running one for the last few weeks as my teenager swiped my aux battery for his car.  I will steal it back as soon as I catch him.

Ken

Sam, i am sure both of you have thought of this, but i didn't see it mentioned, and it might be important.

the np203 case drain hole is one of the lower front mounting holes where it bolts to tranny adapter. if you clock the case and redrill to match the 518 tranny how are you blocking off the drain hole? would hate to see you go to all of this trouble to mount the case and then have a non-stop leak.

might be able to take an allen head screw and thread it in there and seal it up. of course this means dropping the case any time you want to change fluid in it. but better than leaking 30 weight all over.

still an awesome build.

eric

Good to meet you Eddie - that worked out great!  We'll be a'seeing ya around 


Hadn't got that far but I definitely thank you for the tip Eric - definitely have to address that.  I 'mated' the 203 to the 518 today and got my first glimpse of what needs to be done. 

The biggest hole in the bag of chips is spline engagement - there is only about 3/4" of spline engagement - not good  .  Seems the 518's output shaft is recessed in the tail housing by about 1/4", wheras a 727's output shaft is extended past the tailhousing by about 1/4", leaving a 1/2" worth of spline engagement to be desired...and with only that much the 6BT's torque will shear the splines right off of something. 
I think I've developed a pretty simple 'fix', but it'll take a while before I know for sure.


Thanks Dave.  I'm going to have to get with Keith to determine if we can reroute some circuitry to be able to run the batts in parallel.  If so, we're golden.  If not, we'll come up with something.

Been real busy playing musical trucks these last few days - been fun    Lots of good progress tho - should have some pics up tomorrow.

- M2

LOL

Sam,
 You never stop amazing me. Do you sleep at all? It looks like a awesome project again!!
Thanks for including us in your projects.

Ha haa - yeah I sleep pretty good...but once I wake up my twisted brain just starts a-thinkin' .......

Well I think I have the suspension equation determined (it'll all be based off of an '85 Chevy Suburban K20 w/ 454):

Superlift 4" lift, front and rear, rear with 56" springs.  ORD HD front shackles and ORD 6" rear HD shackles.  I think I'll go greasable bushings where I can.  Simple, relatively inexpensive, and all on the shelf

Hey Sam what are you gona do about the XD 440 on the side of the Nacho?

Go Sam Go!!!!   

Andrew

You did not just say "trumpets from "Patton"".  LOL!

 I was actually thinking "Final countdown" from Rocky.

 Nice work and again I'm speechless.

 Â  Nothing is insane any more.  Life is too short and goes by too fast not to at least try to bring ideas to reality - that's what fuels my passion for the hobby - making the stuff I dream about .

Quick update.  The doubler gig is a "GO".  Soon I'll have the details ironed out, but the question I wanted to answer for myself is, can an all-Dodge' 203/205 doubler be built, on the cheap, and bolt up to a Dodge transmission?  The short answer is 'Yes'. 
In my case, I wanted to bolt up a doubler to a 518 auto/od tranny from a late 80's-early 90's Dodge truck.  I wanted to build a bulletproof combo, hence the 203/205, all gear-drive and essentially 'torque-proof'.  The 203 front planetary gear case and 205 t-case are generally regarded as among the strongest units available, even stronger than or at least as strong as some big $ aftermarket cases.  Granted the 203/205 combo is really heavy...but so what - it's a 4-1 gear reduction, and that's pretty good.

There are 4 aftermarket items required for the combo to bolt up, and I'll have them all in place pretty soon, but they're all off-the-shelf and pretty inexpensive.  First is a doubler comversion kit - I've got mine coming from Steve at ORD in Carbondale, CO.  Steve and I have been collaborating on the combo for weeks and I told him I wnated to do an all-Dodge combo for those of us that have 203's and 205's laying around and would rather use 'em verse having 'em keep lying around  .  There is a little 'voodoo' required (minor fabrication) which any local machine shop can do. 

The parts needed are the doubler conversion kit, a stub shaft, and two spacers (from Advanced Adapters).  That's it.

The voodoo comes in two parts. 
First is the 205 input shaft bearing hole (23-spline shaft bearing) needs to be machined open a bit to accept the larger GM 32-spline bearing.  I think this step would be unnecessary if you have a 29-spline 205 (mated unit) from behind an 89-93 Cummins with a 5-speed Getrag.  Auto's are 23-spline.
Second, the front face of the 203 needs to be drilled/tapped to match the 518's tailhousing.
Both of these are in work now and I should have the whole gig wrapped up in a few weeks.

- M2

Sam,
Does the 518 & the 727 use the same adapter to the 205? I want to put a OD tranny in when I do the tranny. I'll probably run a Utra Bell to get it to the 440 .
Thanks,Jim

Thanks!! & A +1 for ya
I'm not going with a doubler. It's going to be a straight 205. I want the OD tranny  so I can gear it down for the tires & still cruise at 75.

No problem Sam, been there, done that, x2 now.

As far as the triple stick goes, front burnouts are cool.

wtf when did Extreme 4x4 get a extra person!?!?!?!?!!?!?!

ug i miss cable tv.

...got some parts for sale -

http://ramchargercentral.com/boards/index.php?topic=107829.new#new

- M2

...it's a curse  ....but it's the only way I know how to test out the 'mad' ideas 

okay - after a lot of good talking with a lot of good folks I have my suspension finally figured out.
First off - while the aftermarket for Dodge suspension does exist there are not nearly as many options for upgraded systems - just stock replacements with a lift.  So, after gabbing with Shaftmaster, Flake, 'Spoon, Greg, and a bunch of others, plus the folks at Skyjacker, Superlift, Tuff Country, and Pro Comp, plus the guys at my local 4-wheel parts, I decided to go the route so many others have gone - Chevy.

What I started with was a set of 3/4-ton 4" lift springs for an '85 K20 Chevy Suburban (with a 56" rear spring), and they were very reasonable from 4-wheel parts, even beating Summit's prices.  Front # 11411, rear # 13511.

I needed to know, somehow, how much the front and rear springs would compress when all the weight was on them...so I tried to simulate it without killing myself 

I lifted the front half of Pat's chassis clean off the ground, slid the spring under the axle housing, and lowered the whole thing down on the front spring...just one of 'em...then added the Nacho's rear bumper...then had my buddy and me sit on the thing...to bring the total front weight up to Nacho-with-a-Cummins specs.  I figured Pat's 360/tranny/t-case, plus the front chassis, plus the front axle, plus the wheels/tires, plus the bumper aught to be same if not more than what the Nacho will weight with the 6BT.  May not be exact, but I bet it's pretty close.  The rear bumper weighs 126 lbs by the way  .



The front spring comrpessed around 2" and stretched about 1".

Same for the rear.



The rear compressed around 4" and stretched 3".  Doing this to both springs gave me a good idea where to mock up the springs for 'normal sitting height' - when the truck is sitting level with it's own weight on it.  Knowing the stretch and compression gave me a good wag at how to set up the rear shackles without having to use a lift block .

Here's the Pro Comp springs as-was (minus one of the overloads that I already pulled - and it'll stay off)



I got all 4 leaf packs for about $520 (w/ 10% military discount)...and that ain't bad y'all.  4-wheel parts was nice enough to bring in a set of Pro Comp Chevy fronts and Superlift Dodge fronts...both 3/4-ton versions...so we could compare the two and buy the one that would work the best.  The Pro Comps had longer length leafs even though the Superlift had the correct longer top leaf - the Pro Comps were longer across the pack, so I kept them.  Keep in mind this'll be nearly a 7000 lb truck with a Cummins sitting right over the fronts - they had to be 3/4-ton at least.
The Pro Comp front leafs had one big advantage over the others - they have a pseudo 'military' wrap around the front eye, and that I really like.  But, when compared to a Dodge front spring the Chevy springs were about an inch too short.  They would bolt up using Dodge shackles, but I wanted the shackles to aim slightly rearward so I can get more articulation (drop) potential.  The only way to do that was to use a Dodge top leaf....but after talking with Steve at Off Road Design we decided to use 1-1/2" bushings on the front leafs including the shackles.  And since no aftermarket Dodge spring comes with a 1-1/2" eyes I decided to accomplish both by taking the Pro Comp front leaf packs to Rocky Mountain Spring and Suspension here in Colorado Springs, and Mark whipped up a fresh, stretched top leaf, with the Dodge reversed rear eye, and 1-1/2" eyes for the big beefy poly bushings from ORD.





New top leaf assembled with the Pro Comp Chevy lower pack (old Chevy top leaf sitting above it)



Rear eyes - top is Chevy, bottom is new Dodge 1-1/2" with 2" stretch



Thanks to the new custom top leafs, the front leaf packs are now '3/4-ton Dodge' with 1-1/2" eyes, and are 2-1/2" longer than stock.  Cost for the custom top leafs, $255.  The rears were good to go right out the door.  So, all 4 leafs were under $800. 

To make the package work as best as I could I got the HD shackles, front and rear, also from ORD (same place that's making the doubler kit).  Fronts are 3/8" thick and are 3/4" longer than stock, and the rears are the 6" HD units.



The doubler kit is looking real good.  Got the necessary adaptors from Advanced Adaptors and it all mocks up nice and neat.  A little voodoo and it'll all be assembled soon.

The tranny is built and ready complete with a fresh custom converter.  Once the doubler is assembled and bolted to the tranny.  Then the tranny/doubler/engine will all get media blasted and painted Cummins beige, then it all gets installed.

Good, steady progress.  Thanks all you guys that have helped me figure out the suspension and doubler gigs - y'all drink for free next time I see you 

- Sam

Now that is some serious redneck engineering Sam! I'm soooo proud of you! lol  I have to do kinda the same thing to figure out how much my rear coils are gona compress.  I can't wait to see this thing in action! Wait... I think I said that about this time last year too??