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Topic: - 78 'Nacho'  (Read 262871 times)
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hiltman
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« Reply #1500 on: December 20, 2007, 12:45:23 AM »

Yeah Sam,

Bleeding those ElDo calipers is a beach! I probalby don't need a brake booster, but at this point, I'm sick of screwing with it piece by piece... Now that I've addressed All of the pieces! Tongue I should be ok, but I really hope that the MC fitting sizes are the same as the '77 MC... Hope you are staying warm... It's cold enough in California, so I can imagine Colorado is getting pretty cold! Grin
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« Reply #1501 on: December 20, 2007, 11:31:19 AM »

Edit: Sam replied while I was replying... I guess he types faster than me... Grin



Brad,

Maybe Aaron (WannaGoBackToMoabAndShowOffMyJunk) will chime in, but here's the MC that he used on his Ram...

Aarons master cylinder choice

I think it will work on our RC's, but I haven't confirmed it for sure.



LMAO!!! Yeah John (HiltmanInHisHugeFrigginDually) that's the one! lol   
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 05:40:29 PM by intenseimages » Logged

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« Reply #1502 on: December 20, 2007, 01:40:48 PM »


I bought the TSM Dana 60 kit. I've since replumbed all of the brake lines, installed an adjustable proportioning valve, and swapped out the MC with another MC (same) that was less than a year old. I also adjusted the push rod that actuates the MC. I've bench bled the MC... and gravity bled the hell out of the calipers... without any luck. I've been told that I should have sufficient brakes without doing all of the stuff I'm doing, but I haven't had any luck. I was also concerned that I didn't have the e-brake adjusted properly. I didn't even have it hooked up at first. The piston is too far recessed and uses too much fluid for the brakes to engage. I wanted to upgrade the MC anyhow, so I won't be too upset as long as the next purchase solves the problem. I can accept all of the time/labor I've invested so far, but I'm charging the sawzall if this doesn't work! Grin

John, if your calipers are like mine, you have to 'use' the e-brake to take up the slack in piston travel.  The e-brake is a ratcheting style, and each click mechanically moves the piston out, and when it get's tight against the rotor (when actually using the e-brake to keep the truck from moving) it is done.  Then, when you press the b-pedal the piston is right where it should be.  Hope that helps??

- S
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« Reply #1503 on: December 20, 2007, 01:43:05 PM »


Maybe Aaron (WannaGoBackToMoabAndShowOffMyJunk) will chime in, but here's the MC that he used on his Ram... Aarons master cylinder choice



Actually this is the one I got - it decodes for '84 Ram 3/4-ton with 4500 lb axle (D60)  Wink Grin

sams master cylinder

- S
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« Reply #1504 on: December 20, 2007, 06:52:11 PM »

Thanks Sam... I figured that the e-brakes weree my issue early on... The problem is that I still didn't have brakes after they were installed and adjusted... although they were better.

Thanks for the link... I'm going to email Santa right now and ask him to get it for me! Grin I have no doubt that a 4 wheel disk MC will solve my problem for good.

Is there anything you can do to keep your door from binding on the fender?

Is Trevor's truck getting fixed under warranty? I sure hope so.

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« Reply #1505 on: December 20, 2007, 07:33:45 PM »

Thanks guys, that helps a bunch! +1 to both of you.  Smiley
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« Reply #1506 on: December 20, 2007, 07:56:57 PM »

Thanks guys, that helps a bunch! +1 to both of you. Smiley

I'll bet it's tough to stop when you have the pedal to the metal and a 451 stroker... I only have a measley 440! Grin

I've been meaning to inquire as to Sam's set up ever since Moab (October 07). I forgot to go look at it when it was 30 feet from my cabin door! There were some pretty cool corvette style universal MC's I found, but the bore may have been too small. I didn't want to get stuck buying something that didn't work. It's probably not all that complicated, but I like to make things complicated... I'll post up after I get the new parts and get them installed. Happy Holidays! Grin
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« Reply #1507 on: December 21, 2007, 11:35:54 PM »

hey whats that painted frame to in the pict of the nacho and ram?
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« Reply #1508 on: December 22, 2007, 12:16:30 AM »

Thanks Sam... I figured that the e-brakes weree my issue early on... The problem is that I still didn't have brakes after they were installed and adjusted... although they were better.

Thanks for the link... I'm going to email Santa right now and ask him to get it for me! Grin I have no doubt that a 4 wheel disk MC will solve my problem for good.

Is there anything you can do to keep your door from binding on the fender?

Is Trevor's truck getting fixed under warranty? I sure hope so.


Well I dunno my MC is just the regular disk front/drum rear gig for an 84 RC - nothing special or expensive, but I do have the brakes plumbed directly off the MC, no factory proportioning valve in the system at all, just the manual Wilwood one in-line with the rear brakes.  So far so good but I'm still tuning it.

I have the front clip figured out and I have to do some adjusting to the latching and positive stop system.  More tuning...

Unfortunately Trevor's rig is past warranty, but he did get it all fixed up.  He got a few other go-fast goodies installed while the truck was in the shop and he's making very, very big hp now.

- S
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« Reply #1509 on: December 22, 2007, 12:22:46 AM »

hey whats that painted frame to in the pict of the nacho and ram?

That's Pat's truck, the 'Paddy Wagon'.  His is the first truck I am officially doing as part of my fab business, ASA Modifieds.  I am assembling and fabricating lots of parts for his truck, and getting it turn-key ready.  Included wil be a custom exhaust, dash, and several smaller items like a recessed winch and some custom wiring and accessories.  As well I am completing the whole vehicle assembly.  I just got the monster small block installed and the tranny/t-case are next, then I can fab the exhaust and finish the suspension.  Lot to do and it is a good business venture for both Pat and I.  It is the first official business project vehicle I am doing and I will be doing more in the future.  It is a good venture that I have been building up to for many years now, and Pat's rig is the first.

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« Reply #1510 on: January 12, 2008, 12:48:02 AM »

Have you had the chance to play with it in the snow? If so how did it do?
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« Reply #1511 on: January 12, 2008, 04:56:58 PM »

Max-what did you end up using for your rear disc setup? I'm thinking that you used the TSM stuff? If so did you go with the Caddy calipers for the ebrake capability? The reason I ask is that when I did my rear discs Iused TSM brackets too and just did the 1/2 ton Chevy calipers so I've had no ebrake since. I've been in contact with TSM lately about doing a Transfer Case ebarke kit for me. the guy I emailed said they would so I just have to get them measurements of my yoke and suchso they can fab a bracket to mount the caliper and get a rotor to fit. Also what are you running for a master and a booster for the rear disc setup? I'm still running the stock master/booster with an adjustable prop valve in the rear. It's never been all that great for me. I've always thaougth thatI may just get rid of the factory one and go with two adjustable valves for each end. I have a booster and a master from a 1 Ton kicking around that I also thought of throwing on.What do you think of this? The pedal is crap at thispoint. 2 years ago Iput on new calipers front and rear, new rubber lines front and rear.I haven't repleced my stainless drop lines to the axle yet tho. They're probably 10 years old now.
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« Reply #1512 on: January 13, 2008, 01:27:49 AM »

Whew - been a while  Tongue.  Haven't had it out at all until this morning.  Took it back over to KAZ motorsports to get the EFI dialed in on Kenny'd chassis dyno.



After about 14 pulls and 4 hours of troubleshooting and tuning we were able to dial in 30 more hp and around 50 more lbs of torque.  Final numbers were 142 hp and 206 tq, at the tires, at 6800 ft altitude - that's from a relatively stock (though freshly rebuilt) all-iron 440.  Not too bad.  The 35's soak up so much power - like having two gigantic flywheels on both ends of the axle. 
Biggest issue is the gear ratio - I've decided to go with 4:10s - the best compromise for better acceleration and good top end. 
It definitely runs quite a bit better and the detonation is gone.  It needed lots more fuel and timing, mostly fuel.  Now I can go full throttle without worrying about damaging anything.  Pretty cool - dyno time is the way to go Agree
Discovered the air filter is holding back 5 hp, and the exhaust is not robbing any hp at all.  The filter is too close to the opening to the air intake tube so I'm going to search for a narrower filter, and try to get that 5 hp back.

So now I can focus on getting in the rear glass and hatch so it won't be quite so chilly driving it around on these 22* days (brrrrr)....and THEN.... Cool I can go play in the snow Agree.

BigRam - Yep I used the TSM kit w/ e-brake, and my m-cylinder is a stock '84 3/4-ton Ram unit with the 4500 lb axles.  Front and rear are plumbed directly into the m-cylinder - no factory pro valve.  But I do have a wilwood manual pro valve in-line with the rear brakes line.





I'm still tweaking the brakes, adjusting the pedal, etc.  It's real important to get a good vacuum feed from the engine to the brake booster - I have mine coming directly from the intake manifold.

- M2
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« Reply #1513 on: January 13, 2008, 01:42:20 AM »

Hey Sam have you put that thing on a scale yet?

How are the brakes without the stock prop valve?
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« Reply #1514 on: January 13, 2008, 07:10:00 AM »

So you're just running the line for the front brakes straight to the axle? I was gonna run dual valves but didn't know if it would help/hurt. I do have an adjustable valve in the rear line but I also have the stock one still in there too. Maybe it's being proprotioned too much with the 2 of them? I'll have to try getting rid of the stock one and see what it does. My vacuum is coming off the manifold also. Haven't checked to see what it's got for vacuum tho. I'll have to dig up the master/booster setup that came off my one ton parts truck that my axles came out of. It's an easy enough swap if the valve trick doesn't work. Then it'son to the ebrake setup.
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« Reply #1515 on: January 13, 2008, 09:01:37 AM »

 glad you got er tweaked in, a crappy running truck sucks to drive, especially when it's a new engine you've spent lots of time and $ on.

 are your heads the 452's? what #'s do you think you would get with a set of alum? valve size? what's your cam specs?

 how much torque did it make between idle and say 3k? how hard did you turn it and where did it make the most hp? what was the final timing?

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« Reply #1516 on: January 13, 2008, 10:57:56 AM »

So you're just running the line for the front brakes straight to the axle? I was gonna run dual valves but didn't know if it would help/hurt. I do have an adjustable valve in the rear line but I also have the stock one still in there too. Maybe it's being proprotioned too much with the 2 of them?


Yup the front is direct from the m-cylinder, and I also bet your is being proportioned twice.  I'd pull the factory one and use a manual one for the rear.

are your heads the 452's? what #'s do you think you would get with a set of alum? valve size? what's your cam specs?


Mike, yeah they are the #452's - no frills or oversize valves just good refresh.  The engine is really pretty mild.  The cam is the Crower 'torque beast'.  If I crack the engine open I will swap to aluminum Edelbrocks and do a roller cam conversion, and thost two things combined I would guess I could gain 30-40% power.  I've also been thinking about a Vortec supercharger.

how much torque did it make between idle and say 3k? how hard did you turn it and where did it make the most hp? what was the final timing?




One the dyno we didn't get into full throttle until right around 1800rpm or so, and the cam starts to shut down right around 4000 rpm.  For this truck the cam is dead on for the power curve, peaking at 3400 rpm.  Realistically there is no need for more rpm so we went with a stump-puller cam profile.  We need to talk to Edelbrock to try to get more timing in the engine - I think we were only able to get 24* total which isn't bad but we'd like about 10* more.
A roller cam will make quite a bit more power, and add aluminum heads it cam flow the big air numbers and that'll really add up.  If I do it I'll just mill the quench area off the top of the KB pistons already in the engine, and bolt on the power parts.  Now that I've seen what a small block can do (Pat's 408 stroker - 451 hp at the crank) with aluminum heads and a roller cam...well let's just say I won't build another V-8 without aluminum heads and roller cam.
Of course I have also thought about selling this 440 as is and building another one with the other profile.  No sense wasting a good setup that makes good power.  In a B-body Road Runner or Charger this 440 would be totally different then how it is in my RC.

- S
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« Reply #1517 on: January 13, 2008, 11:06:10 AM »

Hey Sam have you put that thing on a scale yet?

How are the brakes without the stock prop valve?

Greg - Not yet, but I sure want to.  It's heavy for sure.  The brakes are decent but I still have some tweaking to do at the m-cylinder plunger.  Right now I have too much slop in the pedal but I can adjust that with the plunger.  Now that I can drive it around safely I can really get into the tweaking.

Oh - the front suspension is perfect - got the track bar adjusted and now it drives straight and very, very smooth Agree.  This RC does not have the typical RC 'bounce'.

- S
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« Reply #1518 on: January 13, 2008, 05:37:23 PM »



 The 35's soak up so much power - like having two gigantic flywheels on both ends of the axle. 
Biggest issue is the gear ratio - I've decided to go with 4:10s - the best compromise for better acceleration and good top end. 


After re-reading this I would strongly recomend going with the 4:56's
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« Reply #1519 on: January 13, 2008, 08:20:22 PM »

I know you guys recommend big gears, but if I go with 4.56s my rpm will be too high for what I want it to be on the street, and I do not want taller tires.

So okay, lemme hear some reasons - why 4.56's over 4.10's?  I know we talked about it at Moab and I remember thinking I'd dig 4.56's.  But after seeing the dyno numbers I'm more inclined to run 4.10's.
If yer thinking 4.56s over 4.10s because of rock-crawling, well, that isn't what the truck was primarily designed or meant to do - it was built primarily for camping trips and winter driving, possibly pulling a small trailer full of ATV and dirt bike. 

With 4.10's, 75 mph = 3000 rpm - about 400 rpm more than the 3.55s.  With 4.56s, 75 mph = 3400 rpm, and that's just more rpm than I want to spin.

So lemme hear some thoughts  Smiley

- S
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« Reply #1520 on: January 13, 2008, 08:29:13 PM »

3400 rpm is well inside the safe zone. I like 4:56 for the simple reason that you are moving a lot of weight right off the line. You will  have quicker acceleration in traffic and it will be easier on your trans.
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« Reply #1521 on: January 13, 2008, 09:19:24 PM »

I just went from 4.10's to 4.88's in the Jeep, that is 3/4 of a turn, and it's still not that big of a change.
3.54 to 4.10 is only half of a turn, and I wouldn't waste the time and $$$ for that little of a gain, plus when you switch the rear carrier you can get a locker.
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« Reply #1522 on: January 13, 2008, 09:27:47 PM »

I plan on using mine mostly for trail riding, mud slinging, camping with the family, and will drive it on the highway. I went with 4.88's and 38" tires because I most likely will not drive 75 mph w/tall tires, camping gear, and family loaded (not that safe). Reduce your speed to 65-70, and the 4.56's will be no biggie.

However, if you want to pass someone, while you are at 60, your acceleration to 75-80 will be much better. Drop it back to 70, and hit the cruise.  Cool
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« Reply #1523 on: January 13, 2008, 09:38:24 PM »

i had 4.56's with 36"s and 38"s and likes been said you won't have the mph but mpg will pick up. a lot less throttle is needed to get the pig up and moving and at speed. plus you'll be amazed at what you can do on the trail with a lot less momentum. just a blip will get you over what you used to have to take a run at.
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« Reply #1524 on: January 13, 2008, 09:42:09 PM »

Sam I have 4.11's in my ram, and I really wish I would have went with 4.56's... AT LEAST! The 4.11's with my 2.70? t-case ratio and 35,s is still too high.  unless you go with an atlas or something along those lines I would go with 4.56's.  You can always run a little slower on the interstate, but you can't just drop a gear on the trail, and slow down!
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« Reply #1525 on: January 13, 2008, 09:52:06 PM »

Hey Sam.. FWIW...I'm going with 37" tires and 4.88's gears. I can't see doing a doubler on the t-case, due to length, so I'm still thinking about the JB Conv. Lomax kit. I think the combo will keep things very manageable...

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« Reply #1526 on: January 13, 2008, 09:57:56 PM »

the 56's  prolly will also change your mind on any power additives to the engine. the "seat of the pants"  will definitely notice, and the Nacho won't even care if you have 3k# in tow either.
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« Reply #1527 on: January 14, 2008, 09:20:34 AM »

I'm still thinking about the JB Conv. Lomax kit.


i looked into the Lomax for my np205.  their kit is for th gm case only.  i'm likin' the klune-v.
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« Reply #1528 on: January 14, 2008, 10:39:42 AM »

You can always put a Gear Vendors overdrive unit in the truck and go with 4.56 or 4.58's.
Or modify a 2wd 518 trans to fit with your divorced t-case.
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« Reply #1529 on: January 14, 2008, 01:31:09 PM »

....hmmmm......hmmmmm.....I know I would rather have 4.56s off road, and I know I will most likely not be cruising 75 mph very often....and I suppose I can get happy with all that.  Going with 4.56s will give me great around town drivability and great off-road capability - good.  The chart below is a gear-speed calculator for a 47RE tranny (727 w/ factory overdrive), which column 3 is my current gear pattern, and column 4 is what I could upgrade to in the future.  So, if I can be happy with 3000 rpm at 65...well, bueno.  Without an overdrive I'll just drive slower...and I can get happy with that.  The part that sucks is I have to change out everything in the diffs - carriers, lockers, all of it.  I figure I'll do a detroit in the rear and an ARB in the front, 4.56, and that should derned well be good to go.  Alright...time to start saving penny's - lots of 'em. 

ooookay, well anybody looking for a set of 3.55's with an Eaton E-Locker for a D60 front and a set of 3.55's with a factory lim slip for a Dana 70 rear Grin ?

Gear   1       2       3       4
RPM   2.45   1.45   1   .69

1700   16    26    38    56
1800   17    28    41    59
1900   18    30    43    62
2000   18    31    45    65
2100   19    33    47    69
2200   20    34    50    72
2300   21    36    52    75
2400   22    37    54    79
2500   23    39    56    82
2600   24    40    59    85
2700   25    42    61    88
2800   26    44    63    92
2900   27    45    65   95
3000   28    47    68    98
3100   29    48    70    101
3200   29    50    72    105
3300   30    51    74    108

- M2
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« Reply #1530 on: January 14, 2008, 01:42:58 PM »

I vote Gear Vendors. You would have 1st, 1st high. 2nd 2nd high and so on. Basically 6 forward speeds plus 2 reverse. Then the 4lo speeds.
It can take a lot more abuse than a 47RE also. The factory overdrive is the weak point. That way you can keep the trans that you have now without the adapters.
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« Reply #1531 on: January 14, 2008, 01:59:56 PM »

The problem with a GV is there isn't any room, plus my trans and 205 are both divorced units - won't bolt up.  Then there's the additional cost.  Naw, I think I'll just do the 4.56s and be happy.  If later on down the road I want more highway gear, then I'll look into a 46RH with a mated 205, hack off the bellhousing and bolt up a big block Ultrabell. 

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« Reply #1532 on: January 14, 2008, 02:23:44 PM »

I was thinking the GV would go on the trans (like a 2wd) and you would get a new shaft made for your divorced t-case?
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« Reply #1533 on: January 14, 2008, 03:23:29 PM »

I don't think there enough length to accommodate a GV
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« Reply #1534 on: January 14, 2008, 03:26:46 PM »

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/dodge.htm

edit: for the adapter plate only, i hear that PATC's tranny's and customer service suck. (Pirate4x4 & RippOffReport)
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« Reply #1535 on: January 14, 2008, 03:32:36 PM »

i also have a set of barely used 4.56's for a 60 front for sale!



have you ever driven anything with a Detroit in the rear? on any slick surface in 2x the bitch will swap ends faster than you can blink. if it was me and i intended to drive it as much on asphalt as dirt i would put an ARB  in the rear too.
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« Reply #1536 on: January 14, 2008, 03:42:52 PM »

I sent you a PM Sam.
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« Reply #1537 on: January 14, 2008, 03:53:27 PM »

Sorry Sam I need to hijack this for a minute... How would you figure your low range ratio with that underdrive? If I went with the 4:1 underdrive, and have a 2.72 low range what would my ratio be?
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« Reply #1538 on: January 14, 2008, 04:01:02 PM »

Are you going to tow much with the Nacho Sam?
If not you shouldn't have any trouble around here with the ARB front Detroit rear combo, that's what I ran and was happy with it.
If you are going to tow I would do the ARB rear too like OBX suggested for better onroad handling.
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« Reply #1539 on: January 14, 2008, 08:18:36 PM »

Are you going to tow much with the Nacho Sam?
If not you shouldn't have any trouble around here with the ARB front Detroit rear combo, that's what I ran and was happy with it.
If you are going to tow I would do the ARB rear too like OBX suggested for better onroad handling.

That, and if it gets slick, you can always pop it into 4x
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« Reply #1540 on: January 14, 2008, 10:01:24 PM »

i looked into the Lomax for my np205. their kit is for th gm case only. i'm likin' the klune-v.

someone correct me if i am wrong, but dodge/gm 205's are the same with the exception of the input spline, so why wouldn't the lomax work?   John
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« Reply #1541 on: January 15, 2008, 12:19:36 AM »

Well, after talking with my dyno guy and my diff guy, I know how to settle this out.  My diff guy has a 4.10-geared Ford with an injected 460 and 35's, and he invited me to take it for a drive and get a feel for that setup.  I'll see how it feels and go from there.  Either way it will be a while before I swap out the gears.
- M2
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« Reply #1542 on: January 15, 2008, 12:20:54 AM »

someone correct me if i am wrong, but dodge/gm 205's are the same with the exception of the input spline, so why wouldn't the lomax work? John
As I understand, the Lomax will currently only work with a mated 205 - something about the input shafts on the divorced units being different...
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« Reply #1543 on: January 15, 2008, 12:25:32 AM »

What kind of horse power does he have?
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« Reply #1544 on: January 15, 2008, 06:46:29 AM »

the lowmax comes w/ 32spline female input only. dodge 205's use 23 or 29 spline male. i personally called them and asked why just the gm and they said they didn't see a market for a dodge or ford version. so if you want to run one you'll need a custom 32 spline transmission output shaft or do like "TheRamChargerMan" and do the 203/205 doubler with the 203 having the right output.
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« Reply #1545 on: January 15, 2008, 10:42:45 AM »

What kind of horse power does he have?


Exactly, this may not be an apples to apples comparison.

How much does the Ford weigh, does it have a lockup or high perf torque conv?
What are the trans gear ratios?
You get the idea.
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« Reply #1546 on: January 15, 2008, 02:27:28 PM »

While I was out I also had the RC weighed - 6200 lbs - not bad, actually a bit lighter than I thought it'd be.  Drove the Ford, and while I think my RC does have more power the Ford was heavier.  It was a '94~ish F250 with a big plow in front and a bed full of wood.  It drove pretty good, certainly better then the RC.  Then, I asked him to drive the RC, and he said "as responsive as this thing is...I wouldn't put 4.56s in this - you'll like 4.10s".  That's coming from the guy that'd net more $ from installing 4.56s.  So, there's the info - I'll decide later. 
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« Reply #1547 on: January 15, 2008, 04:10:49 PM »

I would go with the 4.10's.  If the truck were a dedicated trail only rig I would step up to the 4.56 or even 4.88 only because the meager 1.96 low range ratio in the 205.  Have you thought about a Lomax or even a doubler, I guess you haven't wheeled it that much to garner either of those options. 
I know you know this, but to offset any lost mileage, just offset it with larger tires.  The only bad part is that it evens out because it takes more to get the larger tires moving.

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« Reply #1548 on: January 15, 2008, 04:17:33 PM »

well as far as the rear locker goes...the Detroit (and i love mine don't get me wrong here) but it's not as forgiving in some situations as an open one would on pavement..and they have the weave factor too when they lock and unlock at highway speeds.

if it were me and the truck was gonna see 50/50 usage, and if other people besides myself were going to drive it i would rather have a selectable rear locker. that's my 2.
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« Reply #1549 on: January 15, 2008, 07:52:31 PM »

I was talking to Darrell (my diff guy) about the rear end options too, and I told him I would like to do a factory limited slip in the rear and a locker in the front.  He agreed that was a good street setup so long as I don't accidentally lock the front when going around a corner (snap!). 
I need to set up the truck for street driving more than anything else, but off road I need to for sure be able to lock the front, and I like the ARB switch-selectable option.  The E-locker is great but for a front I think it's too tight when not locked - it's a lim slip when unlocked and a spool when locked, and driving around ont he street when unlocked makes the front tires squeal - too much.  The Eaton unit would be perfect in a rear application tho.

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