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EDIT - As of July 2010 Ole Red is now at his new home in Virginia

Original post (beginning July 2009) follows...

...here's the new 'driver'



In case this truck looks familiar it's because it is - this is Andy's old RC.  The short story is I needed a simple, all-weather 4wd vehicle - our little '73 Dart was just not up to the all-weather challenge, so I posted the Dart for sale and started looking for a nice '92-93 Ramcharger.  About the same time I find out Andy's RC was also for sale..........so we both started doing a bunch of this followed by some of this and we got to talkin' and we did a bit of horse swappin'...which was followed by lots of this - worked out great for both of us.

Of course I'm real happy to begin with such a solid truck.  It's a bit rough around the edges, but considering it's Cummins-powered it gets really good fuel mileage, and that was a major reason I nixed the search for a '92-93 gas-powered RC.  I really like the D61/71 combo with the 3.07 gears - really drives great especially with the 31" tires - I'll never go any bigger.  And with the 366 governor spring in the pump the engine gets up enough rpm to do good highway speeds.  So, my all-year/all-weather driver it has become.  Of course, as usual, I wanted to smooth out some of those rough edges a bit, which meant softening up the ride in the back end.  The rear leaf pack was from the '91 donor truck and it included the super Uber thick 5/8" base leaf spring, and that dude made for a pretty stiff back end ride.  So today I pulled just that one leaf and that made a pretty dramatic difference - lots softer ride .

original leaf pack -





and the super leaf -



Just that single mongo leaf made the ride  buck-board stiff.  Without a ton of additional weight in the rear it was just too stiff.  Without it, it's just right.

Sure there are lots of plans, but think along the lines of a nice, restored Canyon Sport model RC and that's where this truck is heading.
What about Nacho?....well let's just say it's more tractor that driver, and it is going to be what it was supposed to be in the first place, my trail rig.  It too has plans, but that's another story  .

- Sam

cool beans. i still may get that 6bt that is sitting at my old bank teller's house. if so i'll have to go back through yours and andy's threads. can't make up my mind, worse i have plenty of time to think about it. oh well. glad his truck ended up in good hands.

how's the house coming by the way?

Very nice trade

WOW

@Sam:
I did that leaf-delete to my M880 too and had exactly the same experience.
It flexes a lot better too...

installed a muffler today - Magnaflow 36" universal diesel unit, #12773 - nice, relatively quiet mellow sound .  Oh yeah, one last thing - band clamps rock 

perdy.......

Congrats on the new ride!!!!
Whats going to be the first change?

wow thats a change .....

  - what's a change??  You mean a non-Ubermodified vehicle?  Uh-yeah, that's the idea...

Not much will 'change' - it's going to remain a simple daily driver.  The changes to it will make it a really nice daily driver.  For the short term, just to get the suspension a bit more forgiving and the exhaust a lot less loud were the biggies.  I want to get the A/C working, and swap in the hardware for both cruise and intermittent wipers.  I'd like to drop in a 518 but I doubt I'll do that any time soon.

Down the road...dunno - nothing anytime soon tho - and you can quote me

Huh   Just when you think all is quiet on the western front, you and Andy who-do all of us.
Just funning with you!
I think that this deal is really cool! As with everybody else, who's ears just perked up, I will be watching this one

i am super glad someone on the site ended up with ol red ..... andy is gonna miss her



and i give it a month till you modify something

Andrew's family already misses her...She's in good hands though...A "rig" for the daughter has become pretty important...An Honor Role, 17 y.o. daughter, who is one of my best friends, deserves something a bit "special"...

Andrew

Just that you can say yer daughter is one of your best friends is pretty awesome there Andy.  Good on you and Beck.  Really great to hear of children who actually want and enjoy being near and being active with their folks - that's a great achievement  .  Figure out how you did that, put it in a book, sell a bazillion copies and retire amigo

nawww...much of the reason for this deal is so that I won't have to 'modify' anything - that was a lot of the point.  Upgrades like bolting in the A/C condenser and plugging in the cruise control, that's different.  I have enough fabrication coming down the road with Nacho and Mack.  This RC will just be a good driver.

i will believe it when i see it 

what are your planss for the spring leafs you took out???

well the big uberleaf is not going back in if that's what ya mean   It was only one leaf per side and it was a seriously thick leaf, 5/8" at the mid section .

Makes me wanna swap the CTD out of my 01, looks good.

gotta agree with sam on that. i could only wish for that relationship with my 13 yr old daughter. i do with my youngest who was in moab with us.

so what did she get?

it's been over a month - no mods . 


not sure, but I'm certain he's working on something pretty kewl

Totally agree Andy!  I have a daughter that is turning 16 next year and we plan on building something together. Right now its 50/50 with the 77 RC or a 64 2wd Studebaker P/U... Similar amount of work on either.

Good Luck and have fun with the kids!

Ya know.. im not opposed to being adopted. If anyone wants to build me a truck im sure we can make a deal.

.......do you do dishes?

.......do you do lowered airbag setups and triangulated 4 links?

why yes, yes I do 

Im on my way with a sponge.

lol

Thats awesome. Will be watching out on this one. Good luck.

okay so pulling the uber leaf out made the ride a lot better but it also made it ride a bit lower in the back...and that's just unsatisfactory , so this afternoon I fixed it the simple way.  2.5" of lift for $40 bucks.  I took a set of spare 6"  factory blocks I had from a Cummins donor truck and replaced the 3.5" blocks that were in there.  The difference was just right, but it required $40 bucks worth of new, longer u-bolts from Predator 4wd in town.  

...before...



...old block...



...new block...



...after - I so like the simple ones...

lots of pics I need them for part three....

so like all 1st gen ve44 pumps...because of the new ULSD fuel...the older o-rings (like the ones inside our beloved ve44s) will start to leak - sooner or later.  Without the older additives and sulfer the o-rings will get hard and shrink...and sooner or later the pumps will all start to sweat, and eventually, leak.  
Red's pump started bleeding about 2 weeks ago, and yesterday I did something about it.  

The first o-ring to fail was on the governor thrust rod - the one impossible to get at without pulling the pump.  It's behind/under the tip of the screwdriver, between the fuel feed and the KSB line - IOW, impossible to get at...


another view


It's the main rod that the governor drum and flyweights rotate on...and there is a bunch of small parts associated with it.  I didn't know this, so when I pulled the rod out to replace the o-ring...all the little pieces inside fell off.  Oops.  So, I pulled off the top of the pump...no big deal...and had a look.  After a bunch of research, here is what I believe to be an accurate exploded view of the governor thrust rod:



The main drum is gear-driven off the main shaft.  When reassembling, the orientation of the drum to the gear below it is irrelevant - plop it in wherever.

Here's what the drum, etc look like when assembled -



Since the pump was out I also replaced the throttle shaft and full-fuel o-rings.

Again, if you have an older pump, odds are yours will start bleeding too, and you will have to go in and update the o-rings.  Once that is done the new fuel will soak the new o-rings appropriately, and they shouldn't need replacing again.

As well, in order to get to the inside nut holding the pump in place, you have to contort yourself to get at the nut.  Or, one suggestion I can make is take that old small block mopar distributor wrench, shorten it about 4 inches, re-weld it, and there's your access wrench .  Works great for both inside pump retainer nuts.



Since you've got the welder out, make yourself a oil pressure sending unit socket too.  Take that standard shallow well oil pressure sending unit socket, cut it in half, and take the oldest, most unused impact socket that will fit the new unit housing, and weld yourself a nice deep-well socket .




The other little gear-puller-looking device is...uh er...a gear-puller device I made specifically for pulling loose the gear that drives the injection pump.  This one is nice and small, and plenty strong, and instead of cranking down on a puller main screw I just tighten down on the two outer bolts against the main shaft - same difference, same effect.  Fits great, and I have a feeling I'll be using it again...

Oh by the way - NAPA doesn't stock a '91 Cummins oil pressure sending unit, but they do stock one for a same year magnum.  umm yeah - same thing

pump is back together and back in the truck, and is running fine, but I think I have the full-fuel screw a bit too far in and the timing a bit too advanced.  I had a bit more blue-white haze on start-up this morning, but it was very cold, so I'll confirm once the weather is warmer.

Me likey!

Nice write up Sam. I didn't do that "O" ring when I had my pump off & apart & now I wish I knew about it. Hopefully I'll get a year out of it before it leaks.

nice work as always sam. thanks for sharing. 

Sam
 First Happy New Year!!
And It's tomorrow!! Is red moving under it's own power again?

not yet - discovered some very interesting differences between a non-intercooled (89-91) and an intercooled (91-93) early 6BT that I never seen or heard tell about - these caused some minor setbacks that sucked up some time but I think I got it worked out.  I've got pics of the whole last three week swap-o-rama, and I should have the rig running tomorrow.  I've got pics for the entire swap, but I wanted to make sure it all worked before posting up.  Stay tuned

...overdrive...is good .

So, okay, here's the story.  About a month ago we had some really, really cold days and nights - like -10 degrees cold.  And I was working crew those three nights, and each and every morning at 5 am when i came out to fire up ole' Red...it cranked and cranked and eventually fired up and got me home.  Cool.  It took some coaxing, but it fired up each night, but each night it seemed to get a bit worse.  Well on day 4, on my normal morning routine to work, the truck fired up, got about 200 yards, and quit.  Had crank, had air, but apparantly had no fuel.  Now it was still at/below 0 degrees, so I thought maybe gelling fuel...but it hadn't happened the previous three below 0* nights, so why now.  Tank was full, plenty of anti-gel, etc.  Checked power to the FSO - good.  Hmmm.  Not a good sign.  Everything that should have power has it, but no fuel.......and I discovered the injection pump is leaking, badly, between the FSO and the main body.  Well that can't be good....

Now, Old Red has about 300,000 miles on 'er - no joke.  And apparantly the IP finally gave up the ghost.  Well that's 'okay' - I gotta give props where props are due.  The rig has been plenty faithful, and it's 'due' some 'issues'.  So.....what do I do now? I asks myself.  

Well, there were a couple options, and the obvious one was to have the IP rebuilt, and there's only one place I'll send it to have that done - up to PDR.  They do it right, and it costs $1200 to do it right.  When the time comes that's what I'll have done to the pump....but for ole' Red.... I had a better idea.  I've been wanting to install a 518 overdrive in the rig since I bought it....and I just happened to have a fresh 518...bolted up to a pretty fresh 6bt Cummins...all from a truck previously known as Nacho......and that engine has about 160,000 less miles on it, and it works like a champ.  Hmmmmm.  Maybe it's time to give Red a heart traansplant i says to myself.  And hey I'll get an overdrive in the process....and I won't have to pay the big bucks to have the IP rebuilt!  Hey that's sounds like a bueno idea to me .  So, making good use of some time off I had for the holidays, I prepped the operating table, and began open engine bay surgery.

Along the way I discovered some very interesting things, the best of which is overdrive in a 3.07-geared truck is absolute bliss !!  Here's how it went.

First, rolled Nacho’s carcass into the shop, and my buddy Morgan and I pulled the 140,000-mile ’93 6bt/518 combo out and set it on the ground.  



Then in the bay next to it I pulled Red’s high-mile ’91 6bt out, and dropped the 205 and 727 out the bottom.  Note – pulling the front end/core support out was the smartest thing I ever did!



Then I compared both engine/tranny combos and swapped the fittings/lines from the old engine over to the newer engine so Red’s chassis would work as before with the new engine in place.  One-for-one swap – pretty standard.   Couple of interesting things tho –
First, I didn’t know the vacuum pump was different on the earlier (non-intercooled) trucks.  This is a pic of the intercooled –



And this is a pic of the non-IC –



Quite a bit different.  The non-IC has no oil line feed – plugged it off at the block.  It also has an amazingly difficult lower mount bolt to reach.  I had to get at it from below the tranny with all the 3/8 socket extensions  I had.  It is at least as difficult to reach that bolt as is the lower rear nut on the IP.

Then I needed to move the tranny crossmember rearward a bit so it would line up with the 518.  This required drilling one-each new holes on both sides of the bottom of the frame.  In order to do the conversion to the 518, the crossmember needs to be mounted about 2.5 inches rearward, while also flipping the 1/4" uber mount plate so the twin oval holes are facing forward.  This gives the exact spacing necessary for the stock 3-prong 518 ‘claw’ to mount to the crossmember.  

Measure between the 3 lower bolt holes, and drill a ‘forth’ hole rearward of the existing three, same spacing.  Maneuver the lower main crossmember into place, install the new '1st' bolt (it’s the only one that will fit without mods), snug it up a bit, then hog out the remaining 2 more holes so the bolts will go through.  It’s hard to explain but it becomes self-explanitory when yer doing it.  The upper mounts have their own issue – once you move the corresponding upper bracket rearward one bolt’s worth…you can’t get the front bolt out without lifting the body up about an inch…and I didn’t feel like going through all the headache, so I just used the two remaining bolts and called it good.  I did however bolt up the first one just so it wouldn’t rattle.



This is the crossmember, facing forward, with the main plate flipped once so the two holes face forward.  Do this and the 518 claw mount with bolt right up…at least it did for mine.



So hardware modified and fittings swapped, my wife and I install the new engine and tranny – we chained the engine more or less standard, but used a strap to balance out the tranny.  Worked great despite some clearance issues with the strap and firewall.



And the 518 installed –



Then, linkage.  Had to bring the t-case shifter mount back a bit to line up with the floor.  Before –



…after…



Then, bolt up the front clip.  This is where things got interesting.  Upon bolting up the radiator/fan shroud, I discovered another difference between a non-IC and an IC engine.  Have a look –
Non IC –



IC –



Notice the fan hub location and thermostat orientation?  Look again –
Non-IC –



IC –



Oh yeah, the pulleys are different too – (non-IC on left)



I simply swapped the fan and thermostat units from one engine to the other.  Also, the serpentine belts do not swap from one engine to the other.  

Then it was time to hook up the wiring, and the overdrive.  I used the same pressure switch I used on Nacho to activate the overdrive, with a simple switch at the tip of the stock lever to cancel the o/d when I want.  Overdrive kicks in right about 48 mph, and that is adjustable by 'tuning' the pressure switch setting.  Works great.



Next, modified both driveshafts to fit the longer tranny/t-case location.  $175 and that was done.  This is how much shorter a 727 is compared to a 518.  Shafts need to be modified just about as much –



The result – Truck will still hum right along at 60 mph no sweat…in 3rd…but hit the od, and it has HUGE legs.  75 mph is a breeze.  I can’t wait to determine the net fuel mileage increase, but I’m hoping for at least 2 mph more.  By the way, these are the best shop lights you’ll ever use – without a ‘filament’ they don’t seem to want to break…at all!  Sweet!



And if you’re using a sawzall without these blades you don’t know what yer missing!



Hopefully, the truck will go a 100k miles before anything else goes wrong!  Been a fun 3 weeks  

- Sam

 

Looks great Sam!!! Did you use the doubler setup or just the 205?

I thought reeeaaaaaal seriously about bolting in the doubler, but opted not to because I just don't see this particular truck 'needing' it near as much as Bud will.  Plus, whatever stuff I rob from Bud will just cost that much more when its turn comes up.....tho I would like to bolt up an Atlas under Bud.  Nonononono...good as-is .

An Atlas would really affect the overall budget!!!!
But it would be COOOOOOOOOL 

boy do i know what you mean. it's hard to reign yourself in sometimes. 

budjet? What's a budget?

The term staying within budget is when you don't have to go to the finance board(Wife) for more money .

arnt you worried the weight of the 205 is gona break the od hosing?

205s have been hanging on od housing in Dodges ctd autos from 91,5 to 93. Mine broke in a wreck when the po died at the wheel at 60+ mph.

hey im wonderin if the reason the fan pully local is diff because the old blue motor is a ac and yours isnt. cause my 94 has a lowerd fan mount as well.

was also wondering if i could get som picts of your powersteering pump and hoses with it int he truck. i have the same vac pump as you do and havin a bit of a problem with the lines hitting the mount it self.

sorry Ben - I somehow missed your questions there.  The A/C thing is an interesting point - not sure.  Both engines had A/C so maybe that isn't the case.  Haveta ponder that'n a bit more.

I'll git some pics for you ...soon as I find my camera, again....

As a bit of an update -
I've got the RC rolling good now and I'm working on a good fuel mileage check.  If my math is right, 60 mph is ~1400 rpm - just loafing along, and 75 mph is just over 1700 rpm.  Now I've needed tires for a while and I've been so impressed with my MTZs that I got a set of Mickey Thompson ATZ Plus Radials coming - 245/75r16s coming (30.5"x9.5") http://www.4wheelparts.com/Tires/Mickey-Thompson-Baja-ATZ-Plus-Radial.aspx?t_c=13&t_s=161&t_pt=100794&t_pl=2883&t_pn=M%2fT5161

I've wanted to go smaller all along and these should bring my rpms up just right; 60 mph = just over 1400 rpm and 75 mph = 1800 rpm - exactly where I want it.  And with a smaller tire there is less rolling resistance and that should equate to a bit better mileage.  This truck is my all-weather daily-driver so with that in mind I am keeping my tire size a bit smaller, but then again I don't need much tire when I have this much 'gear'.  I love the overdrive btw - the truck cruises really great.

I had to put the stock non-I/C turbo and collar back on for now - the one from Nacho wouldn't clear the hood (I forgot about the 3" body lift ), but I'm going to do a bit of voodoo to get the 12cm collar and HX-35 back in there around the same time I do the tires, and then I'll do a fuel comparison again.  Good experimentation

- M2

Sam,
This 6BT has the stock injectors right & did you crank up the VE before? Hows the power feel with it in Red? I can't wait till spring to get going on mine.
Jim

affirm - the engine is basically stock.  The only mods are the 366 rpm spring and a bit of timing.  Stock sticks and (currently) turbo/collar.  However, very soon (maybe this weekend) I'll be adding on the '99 12cm collar/HX-35 combo that Nacho was running, and that should glean a bit more airflow down low where the engine is always running.
The DTT converter is borderline on stall speed - it does its job in fine fashion and stalls out low, almost too low, but after the new rubber goes on today that should be a non-issue.
- M2

cool - got the ATZ's on, and the smaller size made just the right difference.  It feels real good off the line and still has all the top end I'll ever need, tho there is some driveline vibration under it coming from somewhere...could still be a tranny issue.  This 518 is the one from nacho and it never really was 100% 'right'.  I may have to find another core and get it rebuilt later on.  But for now, drive on.



Fuel mileage is down from before, which is unexpected, but then again I haven't been into this pump to see what's been done, and the tire size change may make it better too.  The DTT converter definitely does its job - jury is still out on wether or not I'll swap it out for one that stalls a bit higher.  Red don't need much converter just to push itself along, and a bit higher stall would help it off the line, but again with the smaller tires it definitely feels better. 

The 727 converter that was under Red felt actually pretty dern'd good - I'd compare it to a TCI unit - and maybe I'll swap it in one of these days just to see how much difference it makes...when I have 5 hours to burn up one snowy day later this winter/spring.  I'm just about a pro at converter swaps now...

well...I'm still having tranny issues.  The overdrive , no matter how many times it gets rebuilt, can't lose this 'whine' coming from it, and at high speed some sort of vibration.  Sounds like a bearing whining, and even though it's been apart several times now it seems like it may just be a bad unit.  The tranny came from a crashed donor truck and who knows what life the tranny lead up until I got it.  I have the other 518 core and I think I'm going to scope the od unit on it and swap them out.

Soon as the od engages an immediate 'whine' comes from the unit...from somewhere.  My other truck with a 2wd 518 makes absolutely no noise at all and has brite pink fluid, wheras this one...well doesn't.

Another thing is, when I was installing it over Christmas I happened to be looking at the output shaft and cleaning the back area out, and as I was wiping out the back side of the rear bearing I noticed the outer race...moved.  I checked it again and sure enough the outer race can in fact rotate around inside the case housing.  My tranny guy said 'it is supposed to do that', but I'd like to offer it up to y'all for a second opinion.  Thoughts?

I want to scope the od myself and swap them myself, both of which I've never done, but I can read.  Meanwhile, the fuel mileage comparo continues as does the pump tuning etc for max fuel mileage.  My goal is 25 mpg, and I think I can get there with this RC.

I think this RC is earning a new name - the 'Mule' - as in a factory test/demo vehicle.  I'm trying a lot of practical stuff with this rig in an attempt to both learn and apply some theory to the road.

So long as it gets me to work it's all good

- Sam

hey sam, does your manual talk about opening up the oiling holes in the overdrive? a book i read about 5-6 years ago talked about it, saying the factory specs were flawed. also mentioned that some rebuilt units may have already had it fixed. i tried to find it on the web before posting this but i can't remember the name to save my life. anyway, that is something you might ask around about if you hadn't heard that before. the money and time needed to sort out those 46/47/48 trannies are a big reason i went to the NV4500. that and the 5.61 first gear.  

not sure Dave, I haven't really looked in any books yet - just haven't got 'there'.

Well crap - after the second fill up...my fuel mileage is down between 2-3 mpg .  Weird - add an overdrive, decrease mileage.   Hmmph....gotta be something goin' on here.....

So there's a couple factors to consider.  First, there's also a whole different, though near identical, engine in there...and with that an entirely 'new' injection pump.  And while the IP is 'the same' as the one on the other engine i don't really have any idea what kind of 'tune' it has.  It doesn't pump hardly any smoke out the pipe so I think the fuel tune is pretty standard.

My thoughts are two-fold.  First, the tranny does need some work - it's making noises that it shouldn't, so another rebuild from another shop is upcomming.  Second, with the deeeep airplane gears under there the converter pulls the engine down pretty hard, and I'm pretty certain I'll not re-use the DTT unit in this truck - I'll reinstall the one that was behind the 727.  It has a bit higher stall speed and I think that'll actually help the truck out a bunch around town.

Plus, I've been in 4wd a lot lately, and it's been really cold, both of which of course don't do fuel mileage any favors.

So, the plan is to get the tranny rebuilt, install a bit higher stall converter, and maybe bump the timing a bit.  I just can't think of any reason why this overdrive combo should get worse mileage than the non-od setup.

Anyone have any ideas?  I'd appreciate any feedback

is the 727 t/c a lock up unit?

no the 727 is a '91 unit and the 518 is a '93 unit, both non-lockup, both use the same converter.

One other piece of the puzzle is I am going about 10 mph faster than before, on the highway at least.  Maybe I'll try to do the same speed as I was doing before and get some numbers that way - might be a good baseline.

Similar to an engine's HP and Torque curve having peaks, the efficiency curve does too.  Throw in boost, and it's quite a bit more complicated...  So you might have it too low RPM to get good efficiency.  THe peak efficiency curve is usually close to the peak torque curve.

Mroe boost might help   It'd increase the fuel combustion's power output.  How much boost do you have when cruzing?

Ben

don't know - no gauges before or after the swap.  I know, bad Sambo.  But the turbo and collar are stock for a '91 non-IC rig, which will be upgraded to the '99 IC combo I had on Nacho one of these days.  The biggest major difference is the converter and the overdrive.  I'm going to play with the turbo/collar combo and the timing. 
The 93 engine has smaller injectors than the 91 engine does, and with the DTT converter the thing is pretty lethargic down low and has a bit of a hard time revving up - which makes sense because that's what this converter is supposed to do - pull hard on the engine.  But it may be too low considering the airplane gearing this thing has now.  So swapping converters will likely happen when I have the tranny re-ovehauled, and that means I'll likely have a DTT converter for sale.  Bud won't need it for similar reasons as the Mule, but Big Mack can't live without it's converter (an identical DTT unit) because it's a serious tug boat...and I'll be selling that whole 518 with the converter when that dude get's the 6-speed.  The gears are always a'turnin'!

must be a diesel thing, the no lock up i mean. or maybe they just hadn't started it yet. my 95 1500 was a lock up version. the A-999(904 w/lock up conv) started in the late 80's in the M cars so i assumed the trucks were then too. that's what i get i guess. i don't need to finish that saying...

It was only for a very short timeframe.  The '1st gen' Dodge Cummins rigs are the 89-93 trucks, and from 89-91 the trucks had the non-intercooled engine and the standard 727 3-speed auto.  The 91-93 trucks had the intercooled engine and the 518 (46RH) overdrive auto.  Neither of those era diesel auto's had a lock-up converter, not until the '2nd gen' body came out in 94 - those autos were called the 618 (47RH) auto, and those had factory lock-up.  The gasser trucks, however, did have the lockup converters.  Why the diesel's didn't is anybody's guess, but mine is because the converter technology wasn't up to snuff yet to handle the Cummins torque.

What us 1st genners have been dealing with is a high HP Cummins without a lock-up converter.  The converter is the achieles heel for the whole truck, and the aftermarket units (DTT, Suncoast, Goerands, TCI) make very good units, and depending on the engine's power level the stall speeds will vary a bit, but for certain the stall speed is much lower than the stock clams.  

For my issues with the Mule, I have been talking wtih several of my diesel brothers and I've decided that when the tranny gets rebuilt I will not be re-using the DTT clam and I will be reinstalling the one that was in front of the 727 that Andy put in.  That 727 converter has a bit higher stall speed than the DTT unit, and I need a bit more stall speed for the around-town driving that I do a lot of.  Once up to highway speeds this truck won't need much 'converter' to maintain speed - it's getting up top speed and getting going off the line that the engine is wanting for a bit more rpm.  
Funny too, because I'm always preaching about how important the converter is for a truck to pull the weight and keep the tranny from getting too hot, and that is 100% true for a tug boat like Big Mack, but what I’ve discovered is with a truck with this much gearing (the 3.07 “airplane” gears), the big dawg clams stall too much for a ‘city’ daily-driver truck like this.

My next thought was…well can I use the DTT clam in Bud?  And I’ve decided that I won’t – I’ll get a TCI clam for Bud for the same reason as the Mule.  Bud is going to be a slow crawler, and I’m going to want a bit more stall speed for that kind of crawling as I do for driving the Mule around town.

With the 3.07 gears, 30” tire, and overdrive, the Mule cruises 75 mph @ 1800 rpm.  Just right.
Bud, with its 4.56’s, a 36” tire, and overdrive, it’ll cruise 65 mph @ 1900 rpm.  When I go up to 38’s, it’ll cruise 65 mph @ 1800 rpm.  Again, just right.  And 65 mph will be plenty for Bud.  And if I ever get a wild hair to go to 44’s , well then it’d do 75 mph @ 1800 rpm, but I’m doubting I’ll go there.
So, since I’m having the tranny rebuilt very soon, I’ll go ahead and post up that my DTT converter is for sale.  It’s an $800+ unit new, and I’d sell it for $500 plus shipping.  If’n anyone’s interested lemme know.

I’ll get the Mule dialed in, and I’ll hit my magical 20-25 mpg fuel mileage.  I just gotta work the chassis, and I’m working on some weight-savings things too.  Since I know I’m going to have this truck for a long time I’m using it as a test bed for efficiency ideas, just like the factory did with it’s fiurst line vehicles, hence the new nickname, the ‘Mule’  .

- M2

MM - thinking about the converter ... yes it's wound a little tighter than the stock 727 ... but it should also have a higher overall efficiency than the stock 727 unit ... from what I know ... the 727s are good at making lots of heat, not a lot transmitting power.

Changing the turbo collar from the "lagmaster," is what I believe that housing is on these trucks - 21cm, to the '99 12cm unit (I think it's 12 or 14?) should let you put a little more fuel to her down low and spool up the turbo significantly faster, throw in a little more timing and be right where you need to be mpg-wise.

I understand the logic however, the transmission already has to come out so why not swap the TC ... just food for thought.

Efficiency: I also have been thinking about some projects to increase efficiency on these old dogs ... I'm sure you'll actually get to it before I ever could (can't even get my truck together much less do improvements, so I'll throw it out there. 

1.  Louver unit that works on a thermal switch to block off and open up the grille opening - when closed, completely blocks off airflow to the radiator - great for cold mornings - when open, opens airflow to the rad allowing full cooling.  The mechanism could look something similar to window blinds - sort of like that.

This would allow you to reduce the overall aerodynamic impact ...

Sam,
Was the DTT converter for the 518 or 727 or are they the same?
Thanks, Jim

That's some cool thoughts DT - I'll have to think about that'n  .  And yeah I agree that the turbo swap will indeed 'wake up' the engine, and I'll likely get that done before pulling the tranny so that'll be a good comparo.

On the converter, I agree with you that the efficiency will help the heat issue, and if it were a bigger heavier rig then I'd definitely keep the DTT unit.  But since this is just the RC by iteslf, and since the previous clam felt really good in the 727, it should feel the same in the 518.  I doubt the DTT clam will 'sell' before I get some miles on the rebuilt tranny gig, so I guess I could toss it back in...but I doubt it.

Jim, yup the DTT clam is the same for the diesel 727 and 518 - both non-lockup.  Whyyyy??   ya wanna trade for some of yer hardware???

I will be needing a good converter for the gold RC. How much HP/Torque is that one good for?
Jim

how much 'ya got?    The DTT unit is, IMO, the best 1st gen clam on the market.  I routinely crank over 300 hp and 600 tq through the DTT clam in Mack (306/630 to the tires on a dyno up at 6800 ft) - no problem, and never any heat issues.  I've never seen Mack's tranny go over 235*, and that has only ever been towing Nacho back from Moab coming back up the east side of the Rockies - steeeep.  Of course Mack has the factory aux bed cooler and a deep pan, etc, to handle the big numbers, but that tranny is good to go.  This DTT clam from Nacho is the same unit.  Nacho's tranny had a gauge on it and it never got any hotter than the engine (the heat exchanger was installed), including crawling over Moab with no airflow.  
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know of a stronger or better 1st gen conveter on the market, however the folks that have the Suncoast and Goerands 1st gen clams have all reported the same results.

I'll drop you a line if you want - PM me a good day number for you

Sam,
I'm thinking at least 350 on the hp but hopefully more . I'll send you a PM with my phone # & date. Are you around this weekend?
Jim

yup yer definitely going to want something thick and meaty in there.  Yah this weekend's good - I'll holler at ya  
Cool - thanks Jim

Hey man, what calculator do you use to figure your rpm at certain speeds? I've seen a few online, but none that I've liked too much.

Is it the one I found on this website right after I asked the question?

not sure - the one I use is a mega sweet excel spreadsheet I've used for years.  I honestly don't know how to upload a non-photo to a website.  Anyone??  I can e-mail the thing, but not sure how to upload it.  It's bitchin tho - is has several Mopar transmissions available and just about every gear/tire combo you can think of, and thus far it has been 100% accurate compared to the real world.

kewl - I just e-mailed my GSC to Joe S, he's gonna try to git it up on the calculator thread.  stand-by

I'll keep a look out for that calculator spreadsheet, I've had one for the last few years and it's loaded with with all modern dodge transmissions - read 89 - present.  It didn't have the G360 in it, but I fixed that 

Sam,
PM sent.
Jim

Sam,
I just wanted to say it was great talking to you today & looking forward to doing some business together in the future.
Thanks, Jim

Likewise Jim.  When we get all of our respective 'stuff' lined up and rolling we'll definitely have to work a joint wheelin' meet-n-greet gig somewhere mid-US and put away a few cold ones afterwards.
Talk later,
- Sam

Ya know....RamJam is going to be Mid-US this year......(hint hint)

Sam that sounds like a good plan!! I don't think this summer is going to be OK because we are trying to get a BIG addition going for the house. But with that said I DO want to do a road trip & meet some of the guys. Moab is one of my most favorite places to get back to & with a 6BT under the hood the cost of the trip would be cut in 1/2!!!!
Jim

copy all .  With us getting settled into our home we too have everything else on the back burners.  It'll very likely be summer 2011 before Bud is built and ready to take anywhere, but it's all just a matter of time .

- Sam

Sam (Sam Simpson) has received the sweet spreadsheet.



www.docs.google.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

This may totally change the way we exchange info, as I and many others have a lot of files that could be exchanged, some of which are too large for email or other normal uploading.

The formula is:

Gear ratio (ring and pinion) X Speed X 336 /actual tire diameter. If you have an OD, multiply the OD ratio before you divide.
Also, Adding about 200 rpm is pretty close to account for torque converter slip without lockup.

novack's is my favorite for 4x4s, followed by kiesler.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/gearing.htm

http://www.keislerauto.com/speedanalyzer.html

   - cool (literally) -

If you can smell antifreeze...well that's a bad sign.  In the Mule's case, with 300,000 miles on the truck, and the radiator, it was starting to literally come apart, and it was sweating from several places.  So, time for some preventative maintenance. 
Pulled the radiator, took it to my rad guy, he tanked it, disected it, cleaned it out, soldered it all back together, slapped some shiny black paint on it - all for $100.  Today, back in the truck it went.  I also took the liberty of replacing the seriously old rad cap.  Test drive - up to temp - good to go.  Yay - one less thing to worry about .

i wish there was a good radiator guy here. the one we had retired, sold the business. it was run into the ground in 2 years and is now closed. all the rest are a bunch of hacks.

Looks good & cheaper than a new one!!

hey sam did you figure out that tranny wine im haveing the same problems and cant figure it out as soon as i put it in fifth gear its starts to wine but when it was in the donar truck i had no problems it a get rag 360 that works perfect i didnt know if it was in the driveshaft or if the tranny is to straight and maybe it needs to be a bit to the left or right i know the tranny is good for sure but i cant figure this stuff out

well when this one gets ripped apart again and inspected i'm going to make sure the guy looks at the internals with the mindset that something may be bad to start with.  Fortunately I have another core 518 to use if needs be.  Hopefully I'll be taking it in in a couple weeks...

so last fill up calculated to 18 mpg - not bad to begin with but there's more to be had.  Tranny's going in to the shop in a week or so, after that I'll swap the stock turbo/collar for the HX-35/12cm, and I'm going to crank up the pump a bit because it seems a bit weak.

I'm also realizing that this 6BT is fairly under-utilized in this little RC - way more engine than it 'needs', and in that light I'm working a possible long-term plan to downgrade to a 4BT.  But I'm also thinking when 4BT time comes I'll likely try to find a clean '92-93 RC with all the bells and whistles and a bad engine, and very simply convert it to a diesel. 

In the end, I'm looking at a clean 93 RC/LE with a 4BT/518, 1/2-ton driveline (D44/9-1/4, 3.21s).  That's down the road a ways, but driving this little diesel RC has been and continues to be a pleasure.  The diesel just hums along effortlessly, and I'm hoping to break into the low 20's for fuel mileage.  I'm certain a 4BT will have all the power I'll need or want, and when it's just puttering along having 2 less cylinders to feed should net some pretty great fuel mileage.

Gotta have something to look forward to 

Sounds like a really sweet plan!!!! I'm not in a hurry but when do you think the converter will be available?
Jim

...probably in about 2-3 weeks?  Should be taking the truck in this week, and after that it should be good to go.  Sound good?

Sounds good to me.
Jim

that's what i've been thinking all along too. that's among a few reasons why i didn't hang on to that 6bt i had last year. still putting the magnum in for now but long term the plan is definitely a 4bt. just gonna add a lot of sound deadner.  i  i like the idea of keeping the 1/2 ton axles. less wieght, more mpg.

some interesting notes: 

Red has 3.07 gears and 31" tires.  At 74 mph it turns 1700 rpm.  It gets 18 mpg.

Mack has 3.54 gears and 35" tires.  At 74 mph it turns 1700 rpm.  It gets 20 mpg.

Mack has ~double the (available) power as Red.

So, that begs the question, are 3.07s too deep to efficiently move a big heavy SUV?  And my answer to that is, 'maybe'. 

Mack has taller gears and WAY taller/heavier tires, and it gets better fuel mileage.  Hmmm .  So, the natural conclusions are that maybe there is something wrong with Red's tune (I think likely), and maybe I should turn up Red's pump more along the lines of Mack's pump and see if there is a fueling issue (or lack of it).

Red is essentially stock, but, Mack is getting the same fuel mileage as it did bone stock - 20 mpg. 

So, what is the difference between Red and Mack?  Well, Mack is 2wd so it rides lower, has LOTS more fueling potential, is a bit heavier, has 100,000-less miles on it, has way better breathing (turbo/exhaust manifold), and as far as I can tell has a perfect transmission.  Whereas Red is taller (less aerodynamic), has airplane gears, has lots lighter and shorter tires, has a stock turbo/collar (which equals horrible turbo lag), and has a bad tranny.

Now, Red is getting the turbo/collar upgrade pretty soon, as well as a fresh tranny, and after the first fill-up I'll see if those two things make any appreciable difference in mileage.

One other thing Red's tranny is still doing (did it when under Nacho too) is this:  When I have the overdrive 'disabled' (kill switch disengaged), when under very light throttle, and warmed up, the tranny will 'engage' the overdrive.  Apply a bit of throttle/load and it immediately disengages back into third (and if it's manually in 2nd it'll engane the od then too).  That's with the kill switch disabled.  It's almost like the tranny is trying to save fuel or something.....but in Mack, with the factory overdrive circuitry and PCM, the od will not engage, under any circumstances, unless the [on-off] button is 'on'.

So, in the back of my mind I'm wondering about the effects of too low of a gear .  This is however all a very fun experiment.  Meanwhile Red continues to be a fun daily-driver - gives me stuff to ponder and mull over - the "what if" stuff.  I LOVE the "what if" stuff!

.....I'm just thinking out loud..... 

- Sam

There is something very wrong with your 518 Sam, going into overdrive with the kill switch off is bad enough but doing so in second gear means there is a hydraulic malfunction in the valve body allowing the overdrive to engage whenever it likes.

Should the overdrive engage while moving in reverse very bad things will happen, either the output shaft will twist in two or the overdrive unit itself will explode..

yeah that's what we're thinking too.  Well hopefully the new shop that's getting the tranny will do a better job than the last.  S'all I can do... 

Just be very careful when backing up, if you feel the truck act like the rear brakes are locked don't give it any fuel, the overdrive can't rotate in reverse do to the one way clutch in the overdrive.

 



Interesting!

Maybe a dumb question, but are you sure it's not just the torque converter locking and unlocking? It feels almost like another gear.

not a lock up trans.

Ahhh, I see. 

...I did wonder if DTT had done some real serious voodoo in their non-lockup converters, but yah after some diagnosis it's just the od unit.

.....well this just gets better.  So I'm using Red to move some stuff around on the property yesterday and in the process of rowing the shifter...something 'lets go'.  Shifting went from feeling old and stiff to just about no resistance at all.  All the detents that told my arm which gear I was in were gone.  Now, I thought it was the steering column, and since I wanted to upgrade to a column with tilt, cruise, and intermittent wipers...and since I had such a column, I figured this'd be the perfect time to swap.  The swap was easy, but, in the process I discovered that the column wasn't the problem - it's in the tranny, and that means whatever controls the shifting (a set of detents and ball bearings I believe) has either broken off or broken loose inside the valve body.  Yeah we're having fun now .

As a result, the truck is going to make one last trip - straight to the tranny shop, where I'm hoping it'll get rebuilt correctly by folks who know what they're looking at and can detect/address/correct issues so this never happens again.

.....as well....because Red is down, I'm driving Mack to work, and while driving Mack I'm continually reminded of how perfect a combo a set of 35" tires and 3.54 gears are behind a Cummins.  So of course, and as usual, visions of different chassis' configurations go dancing through my head.....and I again drift towards a 'suburban' style RC.....and I'm wondering as I usually do about just how sweet a 4-door RC would be with the standard '93 Cummins chassis under it, with 35" tires and 3.54 gears.  Essentially I'm pondering how a 4-door 4wd version of Mack would be as a daily-driver, as compared to a standard RC.....and I gotta say it don't sound too bad.  

If it comes down to fuel economy I'm nearly certain a 3.54-geared 4-door RC with 35 tires would net between 18-20 mpg, whereas my other idea of a 4bt-powered standard RC would likely net 23-25 mpg.  So, that's not a huge difference really.  

So I have some options, and I have plenty of time, so who knows, but these thoughts are fun to ponder .  Meanwhile, time to get this 518 un-jacked....

...here's a photo-hack of what Red may...may turn into -



...and if not, maybe something more like this -



....decisions....decisions.........mmmmwwwuuooaHHAAHAHHAHAHhhaaahaaa......

Either one is sweet!! I do love the 4 door RCs tho. So Sam your thinking 6" lift, 3.55 gears & 35" tires with a mildly built 6BT is the ultimate truck.
Jim

well no not 'the' ultimate truck , but for what I need a truck for on a daily/weekend basis, and for what I think I will need in the future, and all things considered, then I'd have to say I'm leaning that way, ja. 

In basic order of priority, the list of requirements for my daily-driver include, but is not limited to -

- Dodge
- Full-size
- No monthly payment
- 4-wheel drive
- All-weather/all-year capable
- Cummins-powered
- Reliable/easy to maintain
- Good fuel economy (20+ hwy ideally)
- Hold 4 full-size adults minimum
- Cruise, delay wipers, tilt

A 3/4-ton 4x4 Cummins RC does all of that easily.  Now the 'nice-to-haves' include:

- 4-doors (ideally)
- Tailgate

And I think I could achieve all of that if I carefully built a.....what would a 4-door Ramcharger be called?.....I guess it'd still be a Ramcharger, just with the 'rare 4-door option' .

Well first things first, tranny.  Then some miles.  Then we'll see

 

Ramburban?

"Introducing the new Dodge RAMCHARGER "MOD4"....the "MOD4" features all of the above items on your wish list and then some....it also comes in your personal choice of colors, be it factory standard shades or your own special pigment blend....this is a limited run, heavy duty spec'd and specially hand crafted vehicle....so place your order soon, as this offer will expire without notice...." ....

sounds like my day. at least it was going to be done anyway.

That's some funny stuff right there !  I was thinking about the 'Dodge Carryall' of yesteryear...  

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=dodge+carryall&oq=&gs_rfai=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=adqoS-P6JIrisQO01f2XAw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB0QsAQwAw


Maybe we official RCCers can generate a proper name for a 4-door RC.  Hmm, lesse here:  Carryall, Suburban, RamWagon, Ramanon, CrewRam, Crewcharger, MOD4, MegaWagon, Panel Van, Panel Wagon, WC-350 (1-ton 4xcrew), DC-250 (3/4-ton 2xcrew)..... what other names have y'all pondered for a 4-door RC??....

My vote would be for the

AW350 Crewcharger
 Intercooled CTD

I like Crewcharger.

I'm definitely on board with the daily driver requirements - I would love to have tailgate on this truck when I'm all done with the conversion.

Ran the numbers and the 35-36" tires would be perfect for highway cruising with 3.55 gears, 70mph = 18-1900 rpms - 20+ mph highway no doubt

I am definitely 'leaning' towards a 4-door.  I think the benefits of the second set of doors and extra internal room far outweigh the drawbacks.  My wife came up with another good name, QuadCharger.

So, meantime, I'll drive the RC as-is and as always search for the hardware, mostly another crewcab.  There out there - just gotta be patient.  I'll likely intercool the truck since we'll certainly be towing stuff with it, and I'll grab another early 90's extended cab frame like I'm grafting under Bud.  I very much like the idea of tossing me, the missus, our Husky and Shepard, Lord-willing two kids, and all our gear in the truck and going fishin', there and back on one tank, not worrying about scratches, and plenty of room and storage.  Yeppers, me likey that idea right there.  And in the end I'll just sell the D61/D71 axles complete...probably with the wheels and tires.  Long ways off but fun to think about

 

Sounds like a plan!!
Jim

it sounds like your "K.I.S.S" motto went out the window.......theres no keeping anything simple with you,but i like the idea...

DITTO!!!!!

 

.....I think I'm finally accepting the fact that I cannot leave anything alone

Honestly I just really like 4-door vehicles, and if I can build a 4-door RC that runs as good as my '93 extended cab long bed Ram then that'd be a'right with me.  Besides, doesn't everyone need a big hauler megacab pickup, a big crewcab daily driver Suburban, and a bigger crewcab off-road bruiser???...all three of which need to be built from scratch??.........

           .................I have my appointment with the shrink later this month.......

Can you make a appointment for 2 

Sam,
Are you getting snow today?
Jim

   -  absolutely.  I normally use two time slots - you can have the second Jim

Yeah we got slammed last night.  Real bad ice and snow, but it's not bad now.  Had a 2-hour delay tho

I think I need the 2nd,3rd 4th & 5th time slot . We heard on the news you guys got slammed with a storm. Did you loose power at all?
Jim

it did flicker once but no losses, thankfully.  Of course had to get to work, an hour long drive.  And of course the RC is down, so in the wife's AWD Saturn Outlook I go, and I must say the thing is fantastic in the white stuff, again, thankfully.

I'm thinking really seriously about using the super nice '85 crewcab I have (got it for Mack looooong ago) and building the 'burban sooner verse later. 

well, you'll have enough room to work on the kids in there too.
Bud Jr. and little Mack (the future twins) will have Dodges in their blood.

I can't wait!!!!!! U 2 have the skills to do it.

well good - the RC is at the tranny shop, again - what a pain in the ass.  I'm very curious to hear what this guy discovers when he opens it up.

I really liked how the 727 that was under this truck before performed, to include the converter, and I'm putting that converter back in this time around.  Juuust a bit more stall speed and I think it'll be just dandy.  I'll know in about a week...

Sam are you putting any performance goodies in it on this rebuild?
Jim

that's just it - the goodies are already supposed to be in there - guess we'll find out.  And really, the only things I need in a tranny are a good converter and a shift kit.  A deep(er) pan and a temp gauge are always a good idea. 

hey sam, you know there is no cure for what we have, right?     cool ideas for sure.  still trying to get started on mine. damn job thing keeps getting in the way. 

...yeah...I know I'm cursed same as the rest of us - but admitting it somehow keeps me sane.  I gotta admit tho, if I keep watching TTC video's...and if the curse gets much worse...Bud's gonna end up a BIG fat juicy rig

Stay focused, stay focused....watch the Pentastar pendulum swing back and forth, back and forth....repeat after me, "B.U.D. has a purpose, B.U.D. has a purpose"....now go to the shop, turn on the lights....when you open your eyes, you'll know what to do....










who am I kidding?....Red was only supposed to be a DD....KISS is what you said....and we are seeing how that is turning out....

dont forget to click your heels......and do a doce do

             .......there's no place like the shop......

                                     

                     ........there's no place like the shop......

...I'm pretty sure for the foreseeable future Red will stay a good ole regular RC .

...so does everyone else just really hate it when yer rig in having surgery done to it that you have no control over?  I trust the guy doing the work, I really do, but I'm usually the one doing the work...and when someone else works on my stuff......man I just sort of wig out - never liked it.  But since I'm not a tranny or diff expert, nor do I have the proper tools, I gotta take it in.  Paying for it is bad enough, but having it 'right' is the price ya pay. 
The guy is doing 'exploratative surgery' - finding out what's wrong, fixing it, replacing what needs replacing, and buttoning it all back together.  Then he'll hook up his diagnostic tools and test both the tranny pressure and also the flow rates for the whole system, to include in and out of the cooler to make sure it's up to spec.
Hopefully all will be well, won't have too much broken, and will be within the quoted price.  I just want a good driver so it shouldn't be too bad.  AHHHH I hate this part

I know what you mean... My dd is at the dealer with a bad tranny at 16,700!

But if the guy knows what he's doing and stands by his work, then I wouldn't worry too much. At least you have your other rigs to drive... I'm bumming rides. 

Damn Sam! You sound like a worried father, pacing in the waiting room of the er after your kid fell off the jungle gym. Dont worry, everything will be alright!

I can relate to how you feel also.

and most places make it worse by them having windows from the service desk to the service area..you can see'em monkeying with it but you can go out there....that sux.......

well the whole reason I went with this new guy is mainly because he listens to me.  He let me tell him what I think the problems are and what I want done, and he takes the time to talk about the whole thing instead of just telling me that everything will be fine.
They've actually already got it apart, diagnosed, and going back together.  Found some interesting things wrong inside - three major issues, and it looks like each are taken care of.  I've a good feeling that this tranny will...finally...be good to go.  Additionally, he has held to his original price estimate even though it took a lot of extra time to figure out.  
So even though I still don't have it back yet (should be tomorrow) I do believe I've got a new tranny guy.  Yayyyeee . 

Sounds like a good guy!!!
Let us know how it works out.
Jim

What was wrong with the innards? Inquiring minds need to know.

cool - truck is back and the tranny performs "all kinds of better!" - that's what I told the shop owner after I got home.
There were several small things wrong, to include a very worn out valve body, a worn out detent lever, a worn out 2nd gear band, smoked overdrive clutches (again), and an 'improperly assembled governor' - in other words a ticking bomb.  So be it.  It shifts a lot better, up and down, the 'new' converter was the right choice - it feels much better - juuuust a bit more stall, and the overdrive definitely shifts better, in and out.  And the od will not 'ooze' into gear whenever it wants.  

One thing we confirmed is there are two versions of overdrive gear sets - one with helical gears and one with straight-cut gears.  The straight-cut gears were apparantly the stronger (and louder) version and were offered only in the 1-ton rigs (how they got into my 3/4 ton donor truck I do not know, but they may have been installed from one of the previous shops' rebuilds - I really don't know or care now).  This one had straight-cut, and that was what was 'singing' when in overdrive.  I was pretty certain there were straight-cut gears in there, but I wanted the tranny quiet.  Fortunately the shop had a set of the helical cut gears and swapped them over, and now the tranny is completely silent .  Lots of good, and I haven't yet found any bad...and I'm pretty picky.  So yes, I have found a tranny guy.

Funny thing too, everyone at the shop really likes the truck, they really dig the diesel conversion and all.  And one of the techs has a 78 dually 1-ton that he wants to do a Cummins conversion on......and he asked me 'how tuff is the conversion'..... .  Well you can imagine the conversation from there , and I'm hoping he'll take my advice and migrate onto the best website on the net, right here on RCC.
So yes, if anyone in the local area is looking for a decent tranny shop, I'd recommend the Transmission Clinic here in the 'Springs.  Don and his team have earned my business.  I can't wait to take Bud there

Thats awesome Sam. Sounds like they're one of those companies thats more interested in gaining return customers than earning a quick buck, which honestly, we could use alot more shops with that kinda mentality. Glad to hear everything worked out.

That sounds Awesome!! How many miles did the 518 have on it from new? I'm wondering if I should get a new valve body for mine when I do mine. Did you guys open up the oiling for the OD??
Jim

if you dont mind me asking how much for the rebuild?

It was an even $1000.  We didn't know how extensive the repairs were going to be, and there wasn't a rebuild kit involved (with the exception of a couple of hard parts) so it was nearly 100% labor, which included pulling and reinstalling the whole tranny/t-case, etc.  I was 'done' with that part . 

good to hear, now..... road trip!   

copy - 'road trip' 

How's Red driving?
Jim

so far so good.  I had to readjust the pressure switch that controls the on-off for the overdrive but other than that it works great .  I'll do another fuel mileage test once I fill it up.  I'm hoping a correct trans and higher stall net a bit better fuel mileage.  Then I'm planning to finally bolt up the newer turbo and collar to get both a bit more boost and a bit less turbo lag.

I'm still trying to figure out what the deal is with the steering column wiring.  Wiring, my least favorite part of any project.

Did you put the OD button on the end of the shifter?
Jim

it's not 'finished' but yes it's at...actually it's taped on to the shifter.  It's pretty primitive but it workie just right 

man do i hear you on the wiring. tedious and time consuming.

I just got the 2nd gen one & installed on the 92 column that will go into the 88 RC. It's really easy to install.
Jim

I like this list Sam, after driving my beast across country and across trail, I agree, 600ft lb 6bt, 35's 3.54's, and OD (mine with the 5spd) are a great combination. Add AC to the list.  Not perfect for any one thing, but a good compromise and bulletproof.  I would love to have 4 doors and a short bed or a Subummins. I was getting just under 20 mpg before the Detroit and new tires.

...so I filled up today, first after the tranny rebuild -  still getting ~18.2 mpg.  Okay, so I'm thinking it should be better, and I start to think of other things that I've changed recently, besides the usual things like an engine and tranny swap...and we recently did tires, so I begin to wonder about tire pressure.  So, I check the tires and....hmmm, wow, these say 80 psi cold - okay these are load range E so that jibes...check the pressure and....well dang - they're at ~45-50 psi - all of 'em.  Hmmm - well that can certainly affect mileage, especially when they're 30 psi under where they're supposed to be.  So, upped the pressure to the recommended 80 psi, and we'll see how much further I get.

And yah the tranny feels friggin fantastic

Glad the trans feels great this time!!!
JIm

i'd actually try 65-70 psi sam. that 80psi is meant for max when carring a load. at 80, you may get some loose fillings. may not be as noticable in a RC but in a p/u it is a rough ride. 

  rog - I did notice it a bit more 'bumpy' this morning, but not too aweful.  Figured I'd give it a couple days and adjust from there.  I guess that was the same idea the tire shop had when they mounted 'em, but 50 seemed just too low.  I dunno, we'll see if it 'adds up'.  Good 'experiment' opportunities tho.

hey sam i have been in the tire buisness 12 year everywhere from installing to whole sale to retail if i was you i would run 60 in the front and 40 in the rear  that whats i run in my 2 cummins rigs 80 would only apply to a full load in the rear only there is no reason to run 80psi in the front unless you have a very heavy front brush gaurd and even then there is no reason for 80 in the front

I get the best tire wear on my diesel with about 45 in the front and 40 in the back.  Handles fine too...

thanks for all the replies on tire pressure felals.  I'm sure I'll air down a bit soon - right now it's more of a science project to see how much, if any, affect it will have on fuel mileage.  Might not be any - I'll know in a few days.

...my science project continues - "Operation 'Light-Weight' " is in effect.  I'm gonna put Red on a diet  

To that end, I'm 'searching' for a D44/9.25 set from a RC or Ram, with 3.21 gears.  When I find those, the Dana 61/71 combo under Red now will be for sale.  Trades (+/- cash) certainly considered.

Also going to replace the 205 with a 241.  Be good for a few pounds.  Fiberglass hood...etc.

I am also looking for a 4bt - good running and complete, of course.  

...I'm just sayin...  

- Sam

  

That would make a sweet combo. You can defiantly get a lot of power out of the 4BT if you try. Should be plenty for the RC, You won't be able to pull any super tankers but it would still be a lot of fun!!!
Jim

what's cool is with this truck I don't 'need' a lot of power - just enough to get to work.  A 4bt will do that easily, and when it isn't accelerating (traffic driving, etc) it'll just be loafing along same as the 6bt does now, only with 2 less cylinders to feed.  Should work out pretty good, and if I can keep the truck light enough then it shouldn't have to work very hard.  Could be a colossal mistake too - could be too-underpowered, but I won't be selling the 'spare' 6bt, soooo......

You could crank up the pump, Install a set of 55lpm injectors & a good turbo & Hang ON!!!!
Jim

Aww man a Mad Max built 4bt RC? I'm definitly keeping an eye on this! That's the RC I want to build! All I need is the 4bt, and *cough* the *cough* RC. Oh well. I guess I have to keep saving my pennies and living vicariously through you and all the other RCC'ers.

And to think, when you started this 4 pages ago it was all "KISS" and stuff. 

...well....so far...for this truck I haven't fabricated anything - everything has bolted right in   , so technically I'm still keepin' it simple.  I didn't say anything about not having fun experimenting!

okay, so after yesterdays fill-up, pumping up the tires had no change in fuel economy.  So, where'd my mileage go?  Here's my thoughts -

Assuming the 'new' engine and the 'old' engine are otherwise equal, and with a good tranny, and with fresh tires, the only thing that I am doing differently...is driving faster.  Before the overdrive I'd cruise along at a happy 60 mph, wheras now I can easily do 70+, but, my thoughts are that the increased aero drag is sucking down my economy, pure and simple. 

So, the next couple hundred miles I'll cruise along at 60 mph again, and check mileage again.  If it's back up in the 20 mpg range, then I'll have confirmed my suspicions, and at that point I'll have to decide between 70 mph @ 18 mpg and 60 mph @ 20 mpg.

Now granted, my mileage numbers are an 'average' - city and highway, and I'm thinkin' 18 average is pretty good for a full size.  I have a short trip planned and it's mostly highway, so I'll likely cruise it at 70 mph and see what my highway mileage is.  I'm near certain it'll be at/over 20, but my goal is 20+ mpg 'average'.

My only criteria for all this testing is fuel economy, testing different things out to see what does what and what doesn't do squat.  Chassis changes, different gears, tire changes, engine swaps, overdrives - I'm learning all kinds of good info, and in the end I'm hoping to have a very reliable, efficient, daily-driver RC that I can take the wife and dogs fishin' in, maybe pull a small bass boat behind.  I'm near certain a "1/2-ton" RC with a 4bt and 518, with 3.21 gears and a nice 31" tire, will do what I want with ease.

If I wanna go 4-wheelin...well I got the other toy for that , and a rig to haul the toys around with.  While it has taken many, many years to get 'here', I'm pretty certain I am on the downhill side of knowing what I need, to do what I want, how I want.

- Sam

Double M,
For your consideration:
My all stock 93 D250 will get 24 highway with 65-70 psi in the tires at 65 mph on the highway. One thing I have always tried to stick with is 1800 rpm no matter. I run around in town and 1800 rpm is 45 mph, perfect for all the city streets, it will get 20-21 mph in town.

Just some input. I have tried this 1800 rpm on 5 different CTD's and the results are the same. I also do not ahve a heavy right foot.

Now I know mine isn't a 4wd, but it is a 5spd with the .77 OD ratio, but your 518 4wd has a OD ratio of .69. So the difference has to be wind resistance (your higher vehicle height vs. mine)

Just rambling...sorry.

i don't think the aero is as much to blame as you think. i think our kansas brother is right. haven't owned a ctd but been around them a lot at the dealership and friends. the 1800rpm seems to  be a common area they like. every engine has it's happy zone. my 5.0 stang liked 2000rpm/75mph and got 24 mpg early in it's life, 21 after 200,000 miles.( think it was the heads needing attention.) my 2 barrel 318 dart liked 2100, got 20mpg even after 100,000. of course both of them, especially the stang, had great aero compared to our trucks. but i don't think the aero of a W250 and RC are dramatically different. my 79 RC gets 12 at 75(about 2000) and at 65(1700). i think it would do better with more gear to get to 2000 at a lower speed. after i get my work done i will have to start new experiments.   

Yea but KCC76's D250 probably sits alot lower than Red.

People never believe me when i tell them my RC gets 16-17 mpg. But they never take into consideration that it sits about 6" lower than a stock AW150.

MM and KC are BOTH right.

May sound like a preacher, in the past max had talked about "air plane gears" and running 3.07s/tall tires/overdrive, and I explain in my own experience "it don't work that way". 1800 is a sweet spot A little higher seems ok, not much lower. It will also keep the transmission alive. Somewhere, there is a flow chart showing the GPM of the trans pump. Under those speeds, flow drops off, which means not as much can be pumped through the cooler and still hold everything tight. Double benefit!

(I know I recently thread jacked you, mentioning getting rid of the 3.55s, and going up a good bit, gasoline mopar is better in the 2000-2400 range, dodge built them to run around 2400, but a lil less works fine)

back to diesels and 1800 rpm. You are sitting in massive torque peak at this point. Peak torque and peak fuel efficiency coincide because in order to make the most power, you have to use the fuel the most efficiently. Triple whammy. On flat ground, you might be able to lug an engine and get away with it. Even on the slightest of "rolling hills" (anything outside of florida and nebraska) in order to maintain constant speed you will sometimes have to dig into the throttle. If you are already near peak torque during cruise, when you hammer down (or gently accelerate) you stay in that zone, instead of trying to play catch up. No matter the engine rpm, the truck requires a specific hp to keep it rolling. Lets just say 100hp for a big truck. At 1800rpm it is easier to make this, than say at 1300rpm. Prime example is a stock 426 hemi I dynoed. Put out 430 real hp @ 5500rpm. At 1000rpm, it only made 8hp. Below it's efficiency point it just doesn't make power. In the case of a vehicle going down the road this results in transmission kicking down/engine slowing because it can't make the grade/or torque converter or clutch slipping. (not likely to slip a clutch since you can't make enough power in the first place) Of course that is extreme scenarios, like towing or just under powered (not most diesels)

So ya, the 1800rpm theory is pretty much spot on for these trucks under most conditions. For me around town that just means shutting off the OD or running OD on, on the highway. 33s/3.54 but with slipping trans.

BUT the aero is the absolute most important function here. Cummins factory tests indicate this as well. @60-65mph 60% of your power is absorbed just fighting wind resistance. The other 40 is shared between tire foot print friction, drivetrain losses, weight. Higher mph increases the number even more.

The underneath of a 4x4 is a trainwreck if you are a air molecule in the middle of the road minding your own business. You are getting smashed up against all kinds of drive train parts, caught behind bumpers, ect ect. Your brothers outside of the truck are no better off, they have to climb over a higher roof line, around more exposed wheel wells, ect ect.

I recall reading about efforts to get 30 real mpg out of a ram 2500. It was ALL about the aero. They went so far as to duct tape all exposed body gaps. 2wd doesn't get better mpg so much because of front axle weight, it's the fact they tend to have smaller tire contact patch, sit closer to the ground, have less air snagged under them, and a lower roof line.

You can read around, there are heavy big block fullsize cars with carbs and nasty cams who can still knock down 20mpg+. It's because they slip through the air easier. Any body who has ridden a motorcycle or stuck their hand out the window at 75mph knows exactly what I am talking about. Hold your arm straight out with a 1ftx1ft piece of plywood, then try it while holding a pencil (if you didn't break your arm from the 1st experiment)

Good info Joe!!!
So it might be good to gear & tire size  for 75Mph in OD for the highway correct.
Jim

theres where i miss read, not realizing kcc76 had a 2wd. so yea, bigger difference than i thought. glad to know 1800rpm is right. good knowledge for all of us.

That is a very tough call jim. I just made a quick calculator in excel to check this. (for overdrive trucks WITHOUT lockup converter) Oddly enough, the rpm it spit out, coincides with my real world rpm even though I have lockup. That makes sense, because I had suspected my lockup wasn't working properly anyways.

As far as his gears (@75mph), the number it spits out is ~3.26, so 3.23 would have to do. 3.07 and 33 seems to come out to exactly 1800 as well.

Problem is, I'm not convinced that gearing for 75mph will ever net superior fuel economy. I would be more inclined to set it up for a more realistic 65mph and enjoy increased torque in town. That shows up as 3.55 for 33s, and 3.76 (3.73) for 35s. 3.54/35 will still do 75mph at a bit under 2000 rpm. Within reason.

Seems to me, this may indicate it's not so much the gear setup, but rather the operators speed.   Max is on to this though and has indicated considering slowing down.

For the 4BT talk, the best thing I have found matching 31" (according to calculator) would be AAM 3.42s that is 1850 rpm @ 65mph. Of course we (I) do not have any clue if that same rpm range is optimal for the smaller 4BT. Maybe the fuel curve and torque are identical but on a smaller scale, or maybe it likes to "rev" a little more. Since 3.42 is not really available outside of late model dodge or various chevy, I'm not sure which one (3.23 or 3.55) would be better suited. 1920rpm for 3.55, 1740 for 3.23

Just for kicks I will include a few other figures.
1660 for 3.07
1740 for 3.23
1850 for 3.42
1920 for 3.55
2015 for 3.73
2120 for 3.92
2220 for 4.10

I've been surfing around on 4bt swaps to find out where a 4bt likes to hum.  I'm not certain I'll be doing the 4bt thing anyway, but I do think a slightly taller gear (3.21) is in my future, but, the other combo I'm messing with is going to 4.10's and a 34" tire.  Just thinkin' out loud here...

Great discussions fellas

- Sam

Shows a hair over 2000 rpm (2015) assuming slowing down to 65, but 2330 @ 75. 1850 will get you doing 60.

Joe are those #s in OD or 1 to 1?
Jim

Overdrive with non lock up converter (46RH/518, or a 47RH with blown converter or solenoid)

Lockup would be potentially 150-250rpm lower depending on speed/engine rpm.

Doing it in 1:1 with 33/3.54 will net you about 2500rpms or so. I know this because that is about what I was getting. I don't like it because my governor starts defueling somewhere in the 2300-2500 range. Defueling against the governor while trying to go WOT up a hill with a load is counter productive. 

going back to the pic as someone said hell I'd probly use single cab and cut out the back from above the window down bit come to think of it you should find another cab like B.U.D's go from there etheir why sweet.....

on the 4BT, a diesel only uses as much fuel as NEEDED. if the 6BT needs to make X torque to go 65mph, it needs X fuel

the 4BT will still need to make X torque to go 65mph. with less engine, you will have to apply same if not more fuel for the engine to make the power it needs.

beside how much would you have to spend on the swap, and how far would you need to drive to recoup that cost assuming a 2-3mpg gain?

...ahhh, the 'mad' curse I suffer from is I'll spend the $ just to find out of I was correct about something , and then I'll know if it was cost-effective.  I'm willing, and able, to go 'there' just to know if my ridiculous ideas would work or not......like an air-bagged 3 and 4-linked off-road Ramcharger .  If my ideas don't work, well then I know for certain, and I'll try something different....like hacking all the air bag stuff out and installing nice, simple, effective leaf springs. 

But seriously, the 6bt in Red now spends most of its time barely working, in other words it is a lot more engine than the truck needs to maintain speed.  But when accelerating it's 'working', but certainly not hard, and I'm fairly certain the 4bt would be better suited for a driver in a relatively light-weight truck, especially after I pull a few hundred pounds from it.

As stated by previous folks ... the hot spot for a 6BT is right at 1800rpm for peak torque ...

I think contrary to what I stated earlier, I'd agree that the truck probably should be geared for 65mph driving with the extra rpm going to extra hp to push the beast along at those speeds to fight wind resistance ...

however ... something else is going on here ... even with a somewhat "off" gearing you should be getting better mileage than that ...

I've heard of numerous reports (KCC76;s included) of std and extended cab trucks getting better mileage pushing much more weight...D's and W's ...

do you have a fuel pressure gauge on that rig yet, or any gauges - I know the last rig had every gauge autometer manufactured, what about Red?

4BT: In theory the answer is most certainly yes about the 4BT being a better match for the weight and pulling characteristics of an RC.  I've seen modified ones making 250hp and 550+ ft*lbs torque, which will be plenty for an RC even when towing.  I'm sure you know of this but www.4BTswaps.com is a source of great info ... a couple of notable RC conversions done over there and W150's good mileage reports as well 22 - 25mpg.

You are forgetting several factors. All is good and well on the highway once warmed up. Probably not a ton of benefit there, although I have seen some high claims.

A benefit you are forgetting about is city/suburban driving. That engine warms up faster and consumes less at idle (stop lights) ect ect. The mixed drive cycle is going to see more of a benefit.

Spot on DT.  Red actually has no gauges except the factory dash, and those are so old (300,000 miles+) that I'm curious as to their 'correctness...especially the oil pressure.  For example, Red's original 6bt (the one that dumped the pump and 'prompted' the engine/tranny swap) showed 'low-er' oil pressure on the dash gauge.  But after the engine swap, the new 6bt (the one I had in Nacho, that had great oil pressure) still registers 'low-er' pressure - same-same.  So, to me that means both this and the last 6bt both have good oil pressure but the dash gauge simple registers poorly.

As well, I do plan the full gammot of normal gauges for Red - oil press, water temp, trans temp, pyro, boost, tach - what I call the "basic 6".  The fuel isn't turned up much so I know the pyro isn't pegging past 1200*...but I still want to know for certain.  

I don't have a fuel pressure gauge but that is also a good one - may have to add that.

And yah 4bt swaps is a great site - they have a VE pump rebuild link that's great.

*********************

One thing I'm nearly certain is Red's next upgrade, is axles.  I realized the other day that I have a perfectly good set of dana axles with 3.54 gears in it sitting right inside my shop - the ones from Nacho.  So after some of this and after breaking out the Crown-o-meter...and some more of this I did this and then went to my trusty gear-speed-calculator and plugged in the numbers for a 31" tire and 3.54 gears and overdrive, and discovered that at 65 mph the engine will be doing 1800 rpm, that's with 3.54s - 300 rpm higher than with 3.07s.  At 75 mph the engine will be doing 2000 rpm - and that ain't bad .  This is a snapshot from my G-S-C (I really wish we could figure a simple way to upload this thing to RCC)



So, I'll be swapping out the axles one of these weekends.  Granted the D60 and D70 are "heavier" than a D44 and 9-1/4, but since these axles are right here, and they already have 'traction enhancers'...well it just makes good sense.  Mileage may even go up since most of my driving is city.  I'm not disapointed by having the extra strength either, of course.

After the swap the 3.07 D61/71 combo will be available, and after that I'll scrounge up another front 60 for Bud.  

- Sam

If anyone wants my GSC send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll beam it to you - it's just a simple excell spreadsheet and it's dead accurate.

gauges - ya just mentioned fuel since if the fuel pressure is being sucked down, due to an overworked lift pump or a small fuel line from the tank (I don't believe you've mentioned if it's got factory or larger lines), that the fuel could be cavitating (air in it) and significantly reducing fuel mileage - Nacho's engine had the piston style lift pump on the block, correct?  I can't remember what hp those top out at ...

speaking of factory gauges ... if I remember correctly (RCC correct me if I'm wrong) that the factory gauges of this era are faux gauges ... i.e. that they give the value of what the customer would expect to be normal readings unless they are really out of wack ... basically normalizing the data ...

thought was ... that at the time these vehicles were produced Detroit was first starting to go beyond accepted norms for things like oil pressure and didn't to alarm the customer ...

Axles - ummmm traction enhancing devices already installed - sounds good to me ... and agreed mileage may (should) go up since your axles will be geared better for city driving) still trying to figure out how I'm going to move this RC around in the snow (when it's done) with 1200# of cummins hanging over the front axle without having to keep it in 4wd the whole time ...

D71 - wait a minute ... a 3.07 in a 2wd RC - don't you need a fully built shop/drag truck for ASA modified's?  Red can tow it until Bud is done!

...2wd RC??  Which / who's RC are ya referring to?  On the ASA shop rig - that'd primarily be "Big Mack" - my '93 D250.  That dude is pushing over 300 hp and 650 tq - it does all my towing for me


On the lift pumps, no all three of my rigs have the standard lift pump (Nacho too), but Mack will get the upgrade as it's the only one that has need of it - the others won't need it as they won't be pushing any more power than Mack, and Mack has been doing great with the stock pump.
- Sam

the rebuilt tranny is still a non lock up right? so add a 100rpm or so for the converter. but still much better than where you are. i wasn't sure if you had plans for those axles or i would have mentioned that a while ago.

Easy there big fella, I was just busting your chops that you need a NEW project vehicle as a promotional tool for ASA ... that being a fully prep'd drag truck with a 3.07 rear - just seems that everyone is pushing a diesel drag truck or at least that's what "Diesel Power" would have you believe 

lookin' for two threads - for the life of me I can't find these two threads where someone grafted the glass and outer frame from a pop-top RC into a non-pop-top RC, and someone else did the same with an early tailgate and glass top hatch.  Anyone know where those threads are?  Before the September Moab trip I'm doing the surgery to Red and I wanted to re-read that procedure.  Pulling the side glass / glass hatch out and getting lots of ventilation during the hot weather is mega nice .

Lemme know when your gonna do that, because I will bring the Reaper out there and we can both do it at the same time.  As long as your willing to trade labor? 

Oh, HI SAM!

hey there Josh - 'sup man!  Been a while.  No problem - bring the Reaper on over and we'll do dual surgeries .  Gotta find parts first, and I know a place 

Sam,
In your travels out there have you seen a very good chrome grill shell for the 92ish trucks?
Thanks, Jim

no buddy, sorry.  They're available repro but not sure from where exactly.

Just filled up the truck - after driving over 500 miles at/below 60 mph....still ~18 mpg.  So, it seems that aero between 60-70 mph seems to have a negligable effect to fuel mileage. 

So, what else is there?  There's the overall rpm at those speeds.  Witht he currect gears and overdrive engaged, 60 mph = 1400 rpm - obviously not in the 'sweet spot'.  At 70 mph it's still only 1600 rpm.  But, with 3.54s, 65 mph would be just shy of 1800 rpm, and 75 mph would be just shy of 2000 rpm.  Not bad. 

So since I'm planning to swap axles anyway I'll recheck mileage after that and see if a 'gear swap' brings up the numbers.  Either way, interesting case study, and I'm really not complaining about 18.4 mpg.

- Sam

Thanks Sam!!
I might have to get a new unit from Dodge because I want the Dodge name on it. When are you putting the new axles under Red?
jim

...dunno exactly....sooner verse later - maybe in a couple weeks.

Sam, I have an idea for the removable side windows, I'd build a "U" shaped sheetmetal frame that goes around the edge of the glass, weld hood pins to it aiming inside the vehicle, then drill holes in the pinch weld for the pins to go through. Some universal weatherstriping to seal it up and keep tension on the pins and you're good to go. Hop inside, pull 4 or 5 hairpins and the glass is out.
Edit: Or even just build the frame out of flat stock and glue the glass to it like the factory does.

well just a bit of an update -

The recent score of our '93 RC has changed the game a bit - the R&D I've been doing with Red is essentially complete, and I no longer need to swap axles.  Like Nacho, I had to drive the thing to know and feel the changes which guide my ideas for the future, and now I know what I need to know.  

The short term plans are to drive both Red and Oxx for a few months, and, take both to the Moab gig in late September - that's shaping up to be a pretty good event - lots of friends and fun trail riding and some mountain biking.  Afterwards, sometime in October, the hard-core work on Bud will start......and word on the street is Bud wants Nacho's engine and tranny, bad (I've discovered he can be greedy that way) - fortunately I was able to broker an agreement between the two of 'em and Red has agreed to donate his driveline for Bud.  It's like when the SR-71 Decepticon donated his power source to Optimus...or...something.  At that point, Red will become a donor truck for both Bud and Oxx - chassis hardware for Bud, and 'diesel'/electrical components for Oxx's eventual diesel conversion.  

I thought long and hard about selling Red in one form or fashion - putting the original 6bt/727 back in or maybe without an engine/tranny, but I need a lot of the hardware I've been testing for both Bud and Oxx, so it's in my best interest to keep what I need and get Bud built.  Bud's essentially going to 'replace' Red, and that ain't so bad  .  That's a good plan I like that plan...

bump - I've been searching for two threads, one of a pop-top glass grafting into a hardtop, and the other for grafting a pop top rear hatch and tailgate into a hardtop RC.  Anyone know where those threads are??

never mind! - finally found the tailgate thread - it was buried in one of my other threads!!
http://ramchargercentral.com/rcs-tds-durangos-etc/84-rc-with-70's-soft-top/

...still looking for the side glass surgery....

I forgot Brian did that on his RC. I can't remember where i saw the 2nd one your looking for .
Jim

something to look at is the fuel consumption rateings. the cummins usually have best rate right at or just above peak torque. so if you can gear the vehicle to cruse at freeway speed at that rpm you should be getting your best mpg. there is a chart i saw some where and for the life of me i cant find it lol

edit:
after i bit more looking i found it


also found something interesting to. mostly no duh stuff but still cool
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/assets/pdf/MPG_Secrets_Whitepaper.pdf

Had a great trail run in Red yesterday - went to the top of Red Cone pass, just south of Keystone Colorado.  Beautiful scenery - breathtaking views.

I have decided to use the 47RH in Bud, along with Red's original 6BT.  I think a 300 hp Cummins and a lock-up tranny aught to keep Bud easily humming along, and I'd be able to keep Red intact - in other words I won't have to hack Red apart to build Bud, and I like the hell outta that idea.  Then again, now that I have Oxx, I think it may be time to look for a new home for good ole Red, as it is right now with Nacho's driveline.  The dude run's too good to part out, and if I can keep Oxx and Red intact (Mack too for that matter) and still be able to build Bud...well that's almost too logical to ignore.  
Nothing wrong with Oxx other than it smokes some, and I can use it for winter driving as necessary, and very likely I'll r&r the heads before winter to clear up the smoking issue.

Starting to lean pretty hard towards keeping Oxx a good ole 318, and if needs be I'll rebuild the little engine and add the goodies from Hughes and get a bit more power and mileage from it.  Simple...and I'm starting to really like 'simple'.

some pics from yesterday's gig

From the summit atop Red Cone - 12,801 feet -







the way up to the top -





along the top ridge line -



and a few more along the way -





and something we spotted buried in the woods -



and along Webster Pass, there is one particularly unpleasant section   - this part made our nervous system nervous...





- Sam

Absolutely wonderful pics Sam!!! Thanks for sharing.
Jim

very cool sam i wish i wheelin like that here in so cal,its pretty if you get high enough up there but there is alot of people kinda takes the quite nature feel out of it unless you go on a week day!!

Nice.
Still one of my favorite trails.

As for the chart above depicting the Cummins fuel consumption, that's very different from efficiency.  There may be another chart in which they tested the engine making a fixed amount of power over the whole power band.  That tells you where the engine is most efficient for cruising down the road.  Usually it's at the tourque peak, for a fixed amount of boost.  Add the turbo and those charts are pretty hard to predict.  The efficiency will change with the different boost curves.

Ben

 12,000 ft?    My flatlander arse would be hugging an oxygen bottle. About 10,000 and I pass out.  

  Thanks Sam, cool pics, beautiful country.   That road's skinnier than a Ethiopian kid two days after breakfast...........

absolutely gorgeous pics of the trail and that one part that made your nervous system nervous would have done the same to mine I would say a prayer and hope for the best

beautiful pics Sam. gotta get up there to visit someday. as to the pucker factor on that ledge? feels good to be alive doesn't it? 

 my daughter Megan and my buddy Nathan said they felt that way on Hell's Revenge. it was the first time for them on anything like that.(i never told them it was my first time too  ) they never said a word at the time about how nervous they were though. guess they didn't want my attention anywhere but on the trail. 

Yep, time to move on.  I've got the intel I need, and I know what I want to do with Bud.  Fortunately, I can build Bud without disecting Red.  Therefore, Red is for sale  

EDIT - SOLD -


- Sam

so sam did you ever change out the turbo? Man I wish I had the money Red would be in my driveway right now.... I'm so intrested in Red I jusr reread all 5 pages of this tread and the ones that are linked to... wow my eyes hurt. LOL

Scott

no haven't really got into any of the power upgrades, just been getting it smooth and figuring things out, and been enjoying driving it.  If I were to keep it long term then I'd definitely look for a 12cm exhaust collar and an HX-35 (an early 2nd gen setup) - that'd make a great upgrade especially with the deep gears.  I'll tell ya, these Mickey Thompson tires are awesome - I only aired down to 40 rear and 45 front for last weekend's gig and it had great grip all day long - no problems at all, and then I drove home with those pressures and man the ride is great.

It's really a fun rig to drive - great street manners, and one of the main reasons I'm selling it is to get a head start on Bud, and having Mack and Oxx to use as drivers, are the others .

I know I'll be driving Bud a lot, and I'm starting to get antsy...

- Sam

PS - I do need a D60 front end with 4.56's in it - the price goes down about $800 if a front 60 is 'included', and about $200 more if ti has 4.56's .

While I have a few serious inquirys already, I will be taking back-up offers until I have cash in hand.  First verbal agreement of payment 'in the mail' is the necessary step before I'll tell other offers to hold off.

 - SOLD! -

As of this morning, looks like ole Red is going to a new home in Virginia   I'm bettin' Mike will post up again between now and 'the road trip'

- Sam

Great wheeling pix Sam.
Makes me want to uproot myself from Tennessee and move to the midwest.  I like the "wide open country" wheeling there.  Here it is tight, narrow  mountain trails that will leave full size trucks beat to death.  So everyone here wheels a ATVs, Jeeps and Toyota or the like.   

Well Red is in a new home in Virginia. For those of you that are curious, Scott and I flew out of Dulles Airport at 0600 on Monday 7-19, we arrived at Denver at 0738. Sam and his lovely wife Tracey, who had been gracious enough to meet us, some 90 miles from there home, were already there.

Red was ready to go with a full tank. Sam had even put in fresh oil and a new filter, everything thing was just as he had described it. Sam had even taken the time to put a floor jack and lug wrench in for us, just to be on the safe side. To be honest, I don't think he wanted to see Red go. After a quick walk through and some paper signing we were on our way 1758 miles home.

On a side note, living in a place like DC, we are used to people of a different sort. Here we would have been told to pick Red up at a time that was good for them, found people that couldn't have been bothered and found the gas tank empty. Sam, Tracy…. we cannot thank you enough for all you did!!

Sam had said all that was east of Denver was Kansas. We hit Kansas and found a strong cross wind, man it blew, come to think of it, that was pretty much what we though of all 600 miles of it. What's the old saying, no need to go to hell, I’ve been to Kansas. It was 104 degrees there and Red doesn't have A/C yet.  But I digress. Missouri was a welcome change, they had a tree or two, but we kept rolling. We finally crashed at a hotel at Exit 4 in Illinois about 0030 on the 20th. We were back up and at ‘em and back on the road by 0700. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, back in to Pennsylvania, Maryland and finally in to Virginia, the Old Dominion never looked so good. I dropped off Scott at his house and rolled in to mine at 2230.

The trip sums up at this: depart for Dulles at 0330 leave DC at 0600, land in Denver at 0738. Roll out of Denver at about 0845. Cover 1758 miles in about 37.5 hours spending $252.76 in fuel, using 87.15 gallons for a respectable 20.17 MPG. I think we would have had 21 or 22 but the Allegheny Mountains killed us.

Red ran like a beast. Nothing bothered him the whole way; we were just chugging along at 70. Even ran a good bit a little faster, police permitting,  . What we really thought was funny is we had no license plates on Red. I had a 72-hour Virginia travel permit taped to the back window, never got stopped.

I have decided to keep Reds thread going as I finish the truck. It maybe a little while between updates as I build the bank back up, ……well we'll see  .

Sounds like you had a fun trip.

I was real close to buying it also because I trust Sam and new Red was well built. I just had to move a few other projects out the door before pulling the trigger.

Have a good time with it. 

out-standing!  While I had complete faith in the old dude I am of course pleased to hear that the truck did not give you any issues.  I was hoping for better than 20 mpg for ya but that's still pretty dern'd good.  Apparantly Red's city mileage is actually pretty good too then, excellent!
 
Good deal - thanks for the update Mike - this was a fun gig.  Be seeing you and Red around amigo .
 
- Sam and Tracy

I work in sterling, va and silverbullet1 also works in that area of loudon co.  will have to keep my eyes open for a red rc billowing black smoke from its tailpipe.

Mike,
Glad you had a safe trip!!! Are you going to continue on this thread or start your own? What is going to be the first project?
Congrats on your CTD RC purchase!!!!
Jim

sweet trip. how bout that western Kansas scenery? LOL!

I decided to keep this one going for guys that want to build one, it helped me when I was looking at what to do/where to go.

First up is an AM/FM antenna and an ashtray....now the hunt is on for a 93 or so with a blown/no motor.

sounds like red is in good hands.

so you mean to tell me .... something that both andy .... and sam built is within 1.5 hours of me .....

if you need a hand with anything on old red give me a shout

X2!

Thanks guys, will do.

Sam my wife and I just returned from a 24 day vacation that went up through California, Oregon, Washington, then a 13 day Alaska Cruise (9 days of it was inland and only 4 days on the ship).  Anyway I saw your question regarding a boom/lift and when I got home and going through all my magazines I found this (in TruckingTimes) a Dewalt Contractor "Concept" Truck with a lift hoist in it.
On page 62 of July/August 2010 Volume 21 Issue 5. it is a fixed unit with two "U" shape supports at front and rear of the bed with a channel down the middle with a electric hoist that runs from front of bed to rear and beyound. This truck was created by Motor City Solutions Taylor, Michigan (www.mortorcitysolutions.com.  There wasn't much information regarding spec. only a good picture of the unit.  If you were still looking for something I think this would work for you or give you some ideas!!  puttputt56

What about the WW2 Bomb carriers that were on the 1/2 ton dodge trucks?