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Detroit Diesel 1976 Power Wagon?

26K views 88 replies 19 participants last post by  q0LqD7A3VA46M2 
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#1 ·
#2 ·
Detroits have always had a unique sound.
 
#4 ·
Apples and oranges.  They are both Diesel engines, but vary horribly in size, configuration and power output.  There hasn't been a Detroit put in a Dodge from the factory since the heavy trucks were phased out in the mid '70s so there's no real direct comparison to a Cummins 6BT.  You can get just about any power number you want out of any engine with enough compromise and sacrifice.
 
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#5 ·
Elwenil said:
Apples and oranges. They are both Diesel engines, but vary horribly in size, configuration and power output. There hasn't been a Detroit put in a Dodge from the factory since the heavy trucks were phased out in the mid '70s so there's no real direct comparison to a Cummins 6BT. You can get just about any power number you want out of any engine with enough compromise and sacrifice.
Ok, that makes since, just like anyone can build a 600 hp engine as long as you do it right....

but out of the factory stock is the Cummins or Detroit more powerful?
 
#6 ·
Comparing it to which engine?  Since there is no Detroit engine that was ever put in a light duty Dodge truck, there is nothing to compare it to.  If you want to compare it to a typical medium duty truck powered by a Detroit engine, yes they are compatible.  Detroits are sometimes a different take on the idea of a diesel engine and sometimes use both turbochargers and superchargers on the same engine.  Detroits can be very powerful in the right application, but have a bad reputation as being a "road oiler".
 
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#7 ·
Elwenil said:
Comparing it to which engine? Since there is no Detroit engine that was ever put in a light duty Dodge truck, there is nothing to compare it to. If you want to compare it to a typical medium duty truck powered by a Detroit engine, yes they are compatible. Detroits are sometimes a different take on the idea of a diesel engine and sometimes use both turbochargers and superchargers on the same engine. Detroits can be very powerful in the right application, but have a bad reputation as being a "road oiler".
Comparing the legendary 5.9L Cummins to the Detroit this guy uses in this video....

road oiler, like leaving the oil on the road, but not in the engine, jeeze thats a hell of a recall, never seen anything that bad, exept for when i saw the Kia Sportage leak this black mixture of oil and fuel on the road :eek:
 
#8 ·
MidnightExpress78 said:
Anyone ever seen this truck?
anyone have a clue as to why it sounds different than a cummins engine(kinda like a gas engine)?

that diesel sound is badass....
Those old detroits are 2 strokes, they use the blower to push the air into the cylinders by way of holes in the bottom of the piston liners, when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke. and the valves are only for the exhaust.

I had a 76, with a Detroit 353 (3 cylinder) in it, and it was friggin heavy, I can't imagine how that thing rides with a 653 (6 cyl) in it, talk about nose heavy. That is the same engine older greyhound buses use.

MidnightExpress78 said:
kinda makes me want to put one in my PW... ;D

but do Detroits even make as much power was the Cummins engine?
Those detroits are old tech, from the 50's, comparing them to the cummings, is not even fair, like comparing a 70's 318, to a magnum.
 
#9 ·
but have a bad reputation as being a "road oiler".
there is a saying "if detroit made a brick it would leak oil." which i have found to be pretty true. though detroits slobber a bit i love them to death more so than the cummins. while they are pretty much an obsolete design by todays standards they can make plenty of power and the sound is like no other. my dad has a 1958 gmc pd4104 greyhound thats been converted into a camper, equipped with the 671 detroit and i believe spicer 4 speed. no sure if spicer made it but i think so. the main bed is right over the engine compartment. i remember several road trips with the whole family in it and laying on the bed at night, window open, cruising along at a max 64mph, and falling asleep to the hum of the detroit. there are a few videos of 453 swaps into newer trucks. the biggest thing with detroits is generally the turbo layout sticks up so high so its not practical for a swap (if you want a turbo.)
 
#10 ·
From what I found about the 2 stroke diesels is development stopped because it was nearly impossible to make them meet emission standards.  Keep in mind a 2 stroke makes much more power than a 4 stroke.  It has a power stroke every other stroke rather than every 4th stroke. 
These Detroits can be had cheaply in a crate as military surplus.  But it can be a crap shoot if you want to drop one in your rig.  I was reading  a thread where a guy bought one surplus and it was tagged as rebuilt.  He was giddy until he discovered it was just "thrown together" and wouldn't run . 

 
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#11 ·
ramchargertodd said:
From what I found about the 2 stroke diesels is development stopped because it was nearly impossible to make them meet emission standards.
That makes since cause it freak'in smokes like hell... {rant} ;D

SuperBurban said:
Those old detroits are 2 strokes, they use the blower to push the air into the cylinders by way of holes in the bottom of the piston liners, when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke. and the valves are only for the exhaust.

I had a 76, with a Detroit 353 (3 cylinder) in it, and it was friggin heavy, I can't imagine how that thing rides with a 653 (6 cyl) in it, talk about nose heavy. That is the same engine older greyhound buses use.

Those detroits are old tech, from the 50's, comparing them to the cummings, is not even fair, like comparing a 70's 318, to a magnum.
i though it was a two stoke for all of the smoke it makes stilling at an idle, or unless its a 360 with worn valve guides :p

Has Cummins ever built a 2 stoke engine? ???

only bad think about doing what he is, is you can have a hood on it.... :'(
 
#12 ·
That engine looks like a 6V71.  They used that engine in the smaller MCI buses like the single rear axle models.

They used the 8V71 in the longest and tandem axle MCI buses.

We have 2 church buses that are MCI 7 models. They have the 8V71 and man are they powerful. 

 
#13 ·
No, its the smaller 6V53t series, the valve cover is unmistakable. and the size is just right, I don't think a 71 series would fit without pushing the radiator out front further.

Here is a pic of the 353 in my old 76, you can see how the length is the same.
 

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#15 ·
I seen a guy that had a CAT 3208 shoehorned into a blazer, he had the front end stretched 6", and still had everything packed tighter then these new cars do now.
 
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#16 ·
SuperBurban, do you know if these 2 stroke diesel engines could last 800,000 miles (if properly maintained), like a Cummins?

also do you have to mix oil in with the fuel like the gasoline 2 strokes, or will it run on straight diesel fuel?
 
#17 ·
Anyone remember Gamma Goats? LOL I drove one for a while in the early eighties at Ft. Bragg. It had the screamin-est detroit in it, that entire vehicle really sucked, 'cept for the sound of that engine. It kinda sounded like a pulling tractor.
 
#18 ·
MidnightExpress78 said:
SuperBurban, do you know if these 2 stroke diesel engines could last 800,000 miles (if properly maintained), like a Cummins?

also do you have to mix oil in with the fuel like the gasoline 2 strokes, or will it run on straight diesel fuel?
Yea, they could. they could even be overhauled while in the truck, they had piston liners that could be replaced super easy. No, they did not need fuel oil mix.

http://w.videowap.tv/video/lcBiCyX9lnk/How-a-2-stroke-detroit-diesel-engine-runs.html

http://w.videowap.tv/video/25xolzhg3lo/Detroit-diesel-two-stroke-engine.html
 
#19 ·
goatnard said:
Anyone remember Gamma Goats? LOL I drove one for a while in the early eighties at Ft. Bragg. It had the screamin-est detroit in it, that entire vehicle really sucked, 'cept for the sound of that engine. It kinda sounded like a pulling tractor.
I drove one at AIT, at Fort Dix in 1981. fun as heck.

 
#22 ·
MidnightExpress78 said:
Anyone know what the Torque and HP is rated at on these old engines?
Depends on how they were set up. just like the Cummins now, a few changes, makes a difference, only with the detroits, the changes were swapping out parts (namely injectors), that were expensive.
 
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#23 ·
SuperBurban said:
Those detroits are old tech, from the 50's, comparing them to the cummings, is not even fair, like comparing a 70's 318, to a magnum.
Now i get it

according to the Cummins website, the 6.7 L has 305 HP and about 610 foot-lbs of torque

the Detroit 6v53, was a 6 cylinder, 318 C.I. with about +/- 115 HP and i don't know about the torque

so it is easier to just buy a Crate Cummins 6.7 than it would be to upgrade the 6v53 "318" to have the same amount the power as the Cummins....
 
#24 ·
MidnightExpress78 said:
the Detroit 6v53, was a 6 cylinder, 318 C.I. with about +/- 115 HP and i don't know about the torque

so it is easier to just buy a Crate Cummins 6.7 than it would be to upgrade the 6v53 "318" to have the same amount the power as the Cummins....
Ditto, A 6V53 is going to weight a ton more.

That 115, was the bottom end, with the smallest injectors. mys 353 was 101 hp, I remember the torque was a lot more then a 360. I had N40 injectors, (2 or 3 steps above the smallest), I kept trying to get a set of N60, or N70, but back then they were $125-$150 each, and I needed 3. And a turbo, but neither ever worked with my budget.
I got that truck back in 1984,(engine was already in it), and ran it for at least 10 years, before I sold it.
Thing got 27MPG around town, down the highway, pulling a trailer, any where, but took 2-1/2 weeks to get moving from a stop, but once moving nothing slowed her down.
In 86, I took it to Chicago, to help my sister build a deck on her house. My sister kept getting mad, because everywhere we stopped, someone would come up and ask if it was a diesel, and I would talk to them a bit. She had just bought a brand new Mazda RX7, and my ugly old truck got more attention then her brand new sports car.

Only reason I sold it, is the single seat truck, and the load noise does not go well with raising a family. A good bit of that sound, is from the gear driven over head cam, & accessories., and the gear driven blower, no way to easily quiet it down.
 
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#25 ·
SuperBurban said:
Ditto, A 6V53 is going to weight a ton more.

That 115, was the bottom end, with the smallest injectors. mys 353 was 101 hp, I remember the torque was a lot more then a 360. I had N40 injectors, (2 or 3 steps above the smallest), I kept trying to get a set of N60, or N70, but back then they were $125-$150 each, and I needed 3. And a turbo, but neither ever worked with my budget.
I got that truck back in 1984,(engine was already in it), and ran it for at least 10 years, before I sold it.
Thing got 27MPG around town, down the highway, pulling a trailer, any where, but took 2-1/2 weeks to get moving from a stop, but once moving nothing slowed her down.
In 86, I took it to Chicago, to help my sister build a deck on her house. My sister kept getting mad, because everywhere we stopped, someone would come up and ask if it was a diesel, and I would talk to them a bit. She had just bought a brand new Mazda RX7, and my ugly old truck got more attention then her brand new sports car.

Only reason I sold it, is the single seat truck, and the load noise does not go well with raising a family. A good bit of that sound, is from the gear driven over head cam, & accessories., and the gear driven blower, no way to easily quiet it down.
Wow 27 mpg isn't the cummins about 25?

It just goes to show that no one likes imports ;) , cause they sound like crap, the only reason why i though of putting a detroit in mine as cause of the sound {drool}

is there anyway to get that sound out of a cummins?
 
#26 ·
MidnightExpress78 said:
Wow 27 mpg isn't the cummins about 25?

It just goes to show that no one likes imports ;) , cause they sound like crap, the only reason why i though of putting a detroit in mine as cause of the sound {drool}

is there anyway to get that sound out of a cummins?
It did not have the power of a Cummins. I guess you could get part of the sound by somehow mounting a Roots style blower.

Yea,, those detroits, made the power, because of the 2 stroke, that made them somewhat equivalent to a same size engine with twice the cyl. That 353 I had, was 53 CU per cyl, so only 159 CU total. so it was only a 2.6 L engine multiplied by the 2 stroke factor, it was roughly equivalent to a 5.2 L.

Every engine has its own sound, I'll always love the sound of a detroit.
 
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